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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 1:18 PM
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How come they seemingly did even a mere decade ago?

.
There is likely a series of factors.

Like the people happy with the status quo today, the people who aren't happy with it were likely staying home before and now see a window of opportunity.

There is also probably a largish segment of the population that is fairly magnanimous and generous in spirit and was OK with the progress to date but may now think that things have gone ''far enough'' on a number of issues.

And of course the average age of the population tends to be getting older.
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  #22  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 1:33 PM
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I don’t understand the logic though. If one’s happy with status quo, shouldn’t the same go out to vote to keep it that way??
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  #23  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 2:49 PM
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It's just one of those inevitable pendulum swings I'm afraid.

And I don't think you've seen the "worst" of it yet.
This swing was bound to happen and it's mainly because of the regressive left. It's one of the factors as to why Trump won and led to this rise in "populism". I have no issue with Conservative governments or Liberal governments, as long as they don't go too far right or left. In Ontario's case, I understand why they elected Ford, $15B deficit, higher taxes, expenses have gone through the roof, and Wynne was seen as an SJW which turned a lot of people off (outside Toronto of course). But yeah, Ford isn't far right at all, Trump isn't far right at all, but the parties in Europe and the new government in Brazil? keep an eye out on that because that's more worrisome.
This also brings up an interesting question that is in the political science world, I don't know how many of you studied it or are involved in politics everyday like me. But the question is that *if* these trends continue, would you rather have a "far right" nationalist party or a far left regressive communist party?
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  #24  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 3:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
I don’t understand the logic though. If one’s happy with status quo, shouldn’t the same go out to vote to keep it that way??
People who are content tend to be apathetic. People who are passionate/angry tend to make their opinions heard - in this case, through the political system.

Martin Luther King Jr. thought the most difficult people to deal with in the struggle for civil rights were the contented moderates. That group had no interest in rocking the boat for better or worse, which made them useless bystanders to oppose what he saw as blindingly obvious discrimination.
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  #25  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 3:07 PM
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This also brings up an interesting question that is in the political science world, I don't know how many of you studied it or are involved in politics everyday like me. But the question is that *if* these trends continue, would you rather have a "far right" nationalist party or a far left regressive communist party?
Neither. They're both inherently destructive - history and the world abounds with the damage done by extremist parties.
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  #26  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 3:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
I don’t understand the logic though. If one’s happy with status quo, shouldn’t the same go out to vote to keep it that way??
In addition to what has already been said, these people often tend to believe that the good times will last forever.
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  #27  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 3:13 PM
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There is likely a series of factors.

Like the people happy with the status quo today, the people who aren't happy with it were likely staying home before and now see a window of opportunity.

There is also probably a largish segment of the population that is fairly magnanimous and generous in spirit and was OK with the progress to date but may now think that things have gone ''far enough'' on a number of issues.

And of course the average age of the population tends to be getting older.
I'm curious about how changing demographics have been a cause of what we're seeing.

The countries of the West seems to go through zeitgeist moments within a relatively short span of each other. I think it may have to do with the relative similarity of the demographics of the Western world, especially post-WWII.
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  #28  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 3:18 PM
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I'm curious about how changing demographics have been a cause of what we're seeing.
.
Don't most people tend to get a bit more conservative as they grow older?
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  #29  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 3:40 PM
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Neither. They're both inherently destructive - history and the world abounds with the damage done by extremist parties.
Exactly! yet for many people, it's now always which "extreme" is the best of the worst. So I'm hoping on a global scale we'll see moderation rise again rather than some "resistance party" against the far left or right. Maybe that's what it has to take to get us back to moderation. We seem to be fine in Canada, the U.S with Trump can lead to him winning again in 2020 or a far left party to win (since traditional Dems have died and moderates are voting Republican now). I'm more concerned about Europe and now South America honestly.
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  #30  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 3:48 PM
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but I am tempted to say that people get what they vote for

Well, not quite so for the 60% of Ontarians who did not for the PC's, who now have 100% of the power. But alas, that's just how politics goes in Canada...
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  #31  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 3:58 PM
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In Ontario's case, I understand why they elected Ford, $15B deficit, higher taxes, expenses have gone through the roof, and Wynne was seen as an SJW which turned a lot of people off (outside Toronto of course).

The Liberals had also been in power for 15 years and after going through the usual scandals and problems that any party in power for that long is prone to, it was pretty much pre-ordained that the PCs were going to win this election under any circumstances.

To be fair though, had the PCs NOT elected Doug Ford as their leader, they would have won an even more resounding majority. He was their biggest liability and the closest thing to costing them the election (and had this been 4 years earlier, like Tim Hudak before him, the awful choice in leadership would absolutely have made that the case).




Quote:
Originally Posted by Djesus777 View Post
This also brings up an interesting question that is in the political science world, I don't know how many of you studied it or are involved in politics everyday like me. But the question is that *if* these trends continue, would you rather have a "far right" nationalist party or a far left regressive communist party?

The far left zeitgeist is hardly communist. It's pretty much same-old globalist capitalism wrapped up in "everything is offensive" identity politics.
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  #32  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 4:02 PM
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The far left zeitgeist is hardly communist. It's pretty much same-old globalist capitalism wrapped up in "everything is offensive" identity politics.
It's admittedly a lesser evil but seems appealling to fewer and fewer people these days.
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  #33  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 4:03 PM
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I'm more concerned about Europe and now South America honestly.
I see your point but as Canadians what is going on in the U.S. is a far greater concern for us.
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  #34  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 7:25 PM
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I don't think Ford is going to be nearly as much of a cause for alarm as progressives are making it out to be.

The legislation to change labour law (widely expected) is a lot weaker than one would have predicted; it actually keeps most of Wynne's changes.

The rumblings of plans to end safe injection site funding turned out to be nothing; the province will keep them.

OHIP+ wasn't dismantled. It was merely changed from first payer to last payer.

The rest of the term will be the same old story: a government stuggling to balance between austerity and electability.
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  #35  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 7:27 PM
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But the question is that *if* these trends continue, would you rather have a "far right" nationalist party or a far left regressive communist party?
It would depend on level of extremity; whichever is less extreme than the other would get my support. But if the level of extremity is equal, I'd probably say communist. I'd rather have lived in the USSR than Nazi Germany if I had to make that choice. Obviously both suck, though.
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  #36  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 7:31 PM
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It would depend on level of extremity; whichever is less extreme than the other would get my support. But if the level of extremity is equal, I'd probably say communist. I'd rather have lived in the USSR than Nazi Germany if I had to make that choice. Obviously both suck, though.
Assuming that you don’t get thrown into the concentration camp, eh?
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  #37  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 7:37 PM
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Assuming that you don’t get thrown into the concentration camp, eh?
I think you meant "a gulag".
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  #38  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 7:39 PM
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I think you meant "a gulag".
yea that
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  #39  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 9:14 PM
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Back to #1 though, it's rather unfortunate to hear stories like this, but when the province is for real cash-strapped, GG.

Anyway what are some suggestions of consistent alternative sources of income (with net return at least 20%) for the provincial (and municipal) government?
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  #40  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 9:45 PM
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I don’t know anything about Brazilian politics so I don’t know if it is related, but I think in many countries the left has lost interest in the working class. If you’re poor the left is all over that (as long as it is the last few months of a 15 year mandate). If you’re affluent then there are all kinds of tax breaks and new programs. If you’re working class/lower middle class then SFA.

I think part of the problem is that leftist elites use “middle class” as a euphemism for themselves (people making between maybe 150% and 500% of the median income) and “working class” as a euphemism for the poor, so between the two there is a huge chunk of the population that is basically ignored.
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