Greyhound... Are they worth Giving Money to again?

[Pinus]

Does Greyhound operate in Atlantic Canada? If so, has there also been a sharp decline in ridership there?

[manny_santos]

Greyhound has long been trash, both here and in the United States. I’ve never had what I’d call a “good” experience with Greyhound.

The first time I ever used them was in 2009, going from London to Detroit. In those days they only had will-call, to pick up tickets. The staff at the London station were incredibly rude, and the station was extremely run down and smelled bad.

Two years later I took a bus from London to Chicago, with a transfer in Detroit. The bus to take us from Detroit to Chicago was six hours late, and the staff at the Detroit Greyhound station were the furthest thing from helpful there was. This was in the summer too.

Absolute trash company, and I have no sympathy for their broken business model. I’m glad I own a car now.

Bus travel can be done properly, but it requires deregulation to encourage competition.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Pinus

Does Greyhound operate in Atlantic Canada? If so, has there also been a sharp decline in ridership there?

I do not believe so. The bus operator is Maritime Bus in PEI, NS and NB.

Maritime Bus

I suspect something similar will pop-up out west as Greyhound departs. Maybe not huge 60-seat coaches, but something smaller.

The hardest portion to replace will be the Sudbury-Winnipeg section. Maybe Ontario Northland may be expanded one day, but I suspect not for awhile given the change in the provincial government.

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by Pinus

Does Greyhound operate in Atlantic Canada? If so, has there also been a sharp decline in ridership there?

Greyhound never operated in Atlantic Canada. For years it was Irving owned Acadian Bus Lines and/or SMT lines. Irving sold them off to Orleans from Quebec.

Orleans ran transit for a few years (if that) then a bus strike stopped service in NB and PEI for a year (buses ran in NS and could run through NB but not stop in NB IIRC). When the strike finally ended, Orleans came back for maybe half a year, then folded operations for the same reasons Greyhound is folding out west.

There was no bus service at all in the Maritimes for a year or so, and then Maritime Bus started from PEI and expanded out, eventually providing transit service across the 3 provinces. They seem to be doing well enough now and are looking to pick up the slack Greyhound is leaving behind.

[GlassCity]

Just posted this in the Great Canadian Transit Thread, but in case the conversation becomes deeper here...

I'll echo the voices calling for inter-city bus to be absorbed into Via. Transportation is most efficient as a monopoly, and monopolies belong in government. I think it would help supplement Via's rail service, and government funding could be used to prop up unprofitable routes in the north and other remote areas.

Amtrak in the US has bus service to supplement its rail, both to bring service to towns that don't have rail, and to bring additional service along a rail corridor that may not have the demand for that much more rail. Don't see why Via couldn't do the same.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Greyhound has long been trash, both here and in the United States. I’ve never had what I’d call a “good” experience with Greyhound.

The first time I ever used them was in 2009, going from London to Detroit. In those days they only had will-call, to pick up tickets. The staff at the London station were incredibly rude, and the station was extremely run down and smelled bad.

Two years later I took a bus from London to Chicago, with a transfer in Detroit. The bus to take us from Detroit to Chicago was six hours late, and the staff at the Detroit Greyhound station were the furthest thing from helpful there was. This was in the summer too.

Absolute trash company, and I have no sympathy for their broken business model. I’m glad I own a car now.

Bus travel can be done properly, but it requires deregulation to encourage competition.

I've taken Greyhound twice, once from Langley (Vancouver) to Williams Lake, BC and once from Seattle to Portland. Had great experiences both times My bus from Langley was an hour late, but aside from that my tickets worked fine, the seats were comfortable, wifi and an outlet, etc. I would definitely take it again if it stayed.

[Dengler Avenue]

The stupid thing though is that Greyhound jacks up the price during holiday seasons. Usually it costs < $20 to go from Waterloo to Downtown Toronto, but during Christmas seasons the ticket costs $34.50 per person.

It was a cold night when my friends and I just got back from a trip to Quebec City. We figured that we wouldn’t be able to get to Square One to catch the last Go Bus to Loo, and we didn’t wanna study in Toronto either. We had to buy the greyhound ticket. Also, going through Guelph then Cambridge probably added another hour to the trip. By the time we got back, it was 2:04 in the morning!

I just find it very unscrupulous.

[blacktrojan3921]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Just posted this in the Great Canadian Transit Thread, but in case the conversation becomes deeper here...

I'll echo the voices calling for inter-city bus to be absorbed into Via. Transportation is most efficient as a monopoly, and monopolies belong in government. I think it would help supplement Via's rail service, and government funding could be used to prop up unprofitable routes in the north and other remote areas.

Amtrak in the US has bus service to supplement its rail, both to bring service to towns that don't have rail, and to bring additional service along a rail corridor that may not have the demand for that much more rail. Don't see why Via couldn't do the same.

Actually that makes sense. Plus with the added revenue from doing inter-city bus (much cheaper to maintain), I can see Via having more revenue to improve it's services, and possibly add new lines. (Mainly north-south lines)

[theman23]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Greyhound has long been trash, both here and in the United States. I’ve never had what I’d call a “good” experience with Greyhound.

The first time I ever used them was in 2009, going from London to Detroit. In those days they only had will-call, to pick up tickets. The staff at the London station were incredibly rude, and the station was extremely run down and smelled bad.

Two years later I took a bus from London to Chicago, with a transfer in Detroit. The bus to take us from Detroit to Chicago was six hours late, and the staff at the Detroit Greyhound station were the furthest thing from helpful there was. This was in the summer too.

Absolute trash company, and I have no sympathy for their broken business model. I’m glad I own a car now.

Bus travel can be done properly, but it requires deregulation to encourage competition.

Meh. Buses get delayed in Europe too. Trains and planes get delayed in North America. Staff are never helpful dealing with delays: most of them just get annoyed at you for trying to find an alternative. I’ve taken Greyhound, and it’s not worse than any other transport provider.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by blacktrojan3921

Actually that makes sense. Plus with the added revenue from doing inter-city bus (much cheaper to maintain), I can see Via having more revenue to improve it's services, and possibly add new lines. (Mainly north-south lines)

It's possible. My assumption was that if Greyhound was losing money, Via surely would be too, especially if they restore routes that were cancelled earlier, like to Yellowknife for example. But who knows how it would actually work out in practice.

[vid]

I think it's fairly obvious at this point that long distance bus travel is just not something the private sector is capable of, without generous exceptions and gifts from the government.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by vid

I think it's fairly obvious at this point that long distance bus travel is just not something the private sector is capable of, without generous exceptions and gifts from the government.

Exactly. Which led me to my conclusion. If a private service would require a heavy subsidy anyway, probably makes more sense to just run it yourself.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Exactly. Which led me to my conclusion. If a private service would require a heavy subsidy anyway, probably makes more sense to just run it yourself.

Quebec heavily subsidies intercity buses.

http://www.lapresse.ca/affaires/econ...-le-quebec.php

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

The stupid thing though is that Greyhound jacks up the price during holiday seasons. Usually it costs < $20 to go from Waterloo to Downtown Toronto, but during Christmas seasons the ticket costs $34.50 per person.

It was a cold night when my friends and I just got back from a trip to Quebec City. We figured that we wouldn’t be able to get to Square One to catch the last Go Bus to Loo, and we didn’t wanna study in Toronto either. We had to buy the greyhound ticket. Also, going through Guelph then Cambridge probably added another hour to the trip. By the time we got back, it was 2:04 in the morning!

I just find it very unscrupulous.

Airlines do the same thing. Flying in the summer or near Christmas holidays is more expensive than during the off-season.

I've done that route on Greyhound. They want to hit all the cities in the region, so it makes for slower going. Only at peak times do they use express service.

As for Greyhound itself, while I agree with the logic of the decisions from a business point-of-view, it more definitely hurts communities. I wonder if a smaller shuttle might be the ticket - why use a 60-passenger coach when a smaller bus could substitute on thin routes.

If a network of private operators could interline, you'd have the basics of a system still in place. I'm sure it would be a logistical nightmare, but you could get across the country.

Alternately, at least some travel to the nearest major city should be in order. That might have to be provincially subsidized though, especially from small communities.

[begratto]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Quebec heavily subsidies intercity buses.

http://www.lapresse.ca/affaires/econ...-le-quebec.php

The Quebec government does indeed subsidize Intercar, Orléans Express, Galland and other regional companies so that they can maintain service on unprofitable long-distance lines.

Each MRC (regional association of municipalities) is also responsible for transit and para-transit. This is also subsidized by the government. Some MRC's have city-like transit: the Laurentians, for example, have a main trunk from St-Jérôme to Mont-Tremblant, with 10 departures per day, per direction, and multiple les frequent lines and taxibuses (taxis that work like buses, with a schedule and small fares), linking pretty much every village in the region over a 200km distance. See L'inter des Laurentides. Other regions rely solely on taxibuses and spare seats on school buses. But pretty much all regions have some kind of coverage - subsidized by both the municipalities and the Quebec government.

This could be an option for Western Canada too.

[casper]

Originally Posted by vid

I think it's fairly obvious at this point that long distance bus travel is just not something the private sector is capable of, without generous exceptions and gifts from the government.

I would agree with that statement when made about lightly populated regions.

In the case of Western Canada, the only route they are keeping is Vancouver to Seattle. A route that has Amtrak rail service and 3-4 other private sector bus companies competing.

[vid]

Originally Posted by casper

I would agree with that statement when made about lightly populated regions.

In the case of Western Canada, the only route they are keeping is Vancouver to Seattle. A route that has Amtrak rail service and 3-4 other private sector bus companies competing.

But why should we let the private sector monopolize the profitable runs and force the government only to subsidize the unprofitable ones? If government is going to throw money at bus transport, it should get to control the profitable routes as well to ease the taxpayer burden incurred by those subsidies.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by vid

But why should we let the private sector monopolize the profitable runs and force the government only to subsidize the unprofitable ones? If government is going to throw money at bus transport, it should get to control the profitable routes as well to ease the taxpayer burden incurred by those subsidies.

Yep. I've actually been having naughty little thoughts of nationalizing Greyhound for a while...this just provides a golden opportunity. But yeah, it needs to be the whole system for it to work. Both for it to be useful to passengers and not just be a shuttle from small town to big city, but also to make operations more feasible.

[vid]

I actually know people who work for the local company that is replacing them, and that company's business model has depended heavily on government subsidy. I don't see why the government doesn't just operate the service directly. We already have Ontario Northland in half this region, connecting it to Toronto. Buy some smaller buses to save money on fuel and expand the service westward to the rest of Ontario's Northland. Problem solved.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by vid

I actually know people who work for the local company that is replacing them, and that company's business model has depended heavily on government subsidy. I don't see why the government doesn't just operate the service directly. We already have Ontario Northland in half this region, connecting it to Toronto. Buy some smaller buses to save money on fuel and expand the service westward to the rest of Ontario's Northland. Problem solved.

Only if political will is there

(I don’t say, right?)