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  #261  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 12:35 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Sounds more like wishful thinking than anything...
Not really; there's plenty of academic literature on the Republican base and its current demographics. And hardly "wishful thinking"; I want a Republican party, not the current dystopian personality cult.

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The election of Obama was also supposed to mark the death of the Republican Party and then look what happened.
Nope, never heard that one. That wasn't even the same party; it was the party of Reagan still.
     
     
  #262  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 12:37 PM
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Not really; there's plenty of academic literature on the Republican base and its current demographics.

.
I know. But so far those people have gotten it wrong. So they just keep pushing back the *inevitable* date when they think most of the United States electorate will turn very predominantly Democratic blue and the GOP won't stand a chance.
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  #263  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 12:38 PM
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Nope, never heard that one. That wasn't even the same party; it was the party of Reagan still.
I was actually going to address this in my post.

You're right that it's not Reagan's GOP right now.

It's far, far worse than anyone could ever have imagined in Reagan's day.
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  #264  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 1:08 PM
jtown,man jtown,man is online now
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It's a myth that people change their political affiliation as they age. It won't happen.

The Republican party, at least as currently constituted, has a few decades left, and it's done. Their base is angry, old, and dying out, and there are no more policy underpinnings, just a personality cult.
This is the kind of political commentary I expect to see on cable news. It's a very narrow way of viewing the trajectory. Donald Trump is an anomaly. And that's good. The Republican party will live on after Trump. In any case, Trump isn't a conservative in a lot of ways. His tariffs are so anti-republican I don't even know where to begin. Once he is gone, Republicans(which a lot are already aware) will go back to their traditional ways. Democrats can stop pretending to be for free trade and Republicans can stop acting like tariffs aren't taxes.
     
     
  #265  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 1:10 PM
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Not really; there's plenty of academic literature on the Republican base and its current demographics. And hardly "wishful thinking"; I want a Republican party, not the current dystopian personality cult.



Nope, never heard that one. That wasn't even the same party; it was the party of Reagan still.
Again, very narrow thinking. That "dystopian personality cult" will probably end in less than two years.

You never heard the Republican party was going to die a slow death after Obama got elected? Hmmmm
     
     
  #266  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 1:27 PM
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Again, very narrow thinking. That "dystopian personality cult" will probably end in less than two years.
You think the party will just "forget" these four nightmare years, and go back to the part of Reagan? Seriously? After going all-in and demonizing any dissent? Mexicans are rapists, Europe is evil, Putin is our friend and the media are the enemy of the people? All that is forgotten and it's back to free trade, bilateralism and tax cuts?

There has been a huge inversion in the Republican base, from educated suburban whites to older, poorer and rural whites. You can't go back. The country club crowd is gone, and it would be crazy to abandon your new base.

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You never heard the Republican party was going to die a slow death after Obama got elected? Hmmmm
Nope. Never heard such a thing. The Republicans actually had huge electoral gains under Obama. Obama's opponents were anti-Trump Republican centrists (McCain and Romney).
     
     
  #267  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 1:28 PM
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And the personal responsibility, self-reliance, make things work for yourself (often sidetracking into "survival of the fittest") mindset is a huge part of the American way of life. Whether it's the GOP that defends it or not, there will always a large, strong political side and voter contingent that will have these views in the U.S.

The U.S. will never be a Scandinavian-style country where there is unanimity on the cradle-to-grave welfare state, equality of chances for all regardless of merit...

That's just not the way you guys are.
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  #268  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 1:35 PM
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And the personal responsibility, self-reliance, make things work for yourself (often sidetracking into "survival of the fittest") mindset is a huge part of the American way of life. Whether it's the GOP that defends it or not, there will always a large, strong political side and voter contingent that will have these views in the U.S.
I don't think Conservatism is dead. The U.S. will have a lead Conservative party of some sort. My point isn't that liberalism is ascendant; it's that Trumpism is a demographic dead-end, and since the Republican party is all-in on Trumpism, how do you backtrack?
     
     
  #269  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 2:19 PM
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You think the party will just "forget" these four nightmare years, and go back to the part of Reagan? Seriously? After going all-in and demonizing any dissent? Mexicans are rapists, Europe is evil, Putin is our friend and the media are the enemy of the people? All that is forgotten and it's back to free trade, bilateralism and tax cuts?

There has been a huge inversion in the Republican base, from educated suburban whites to older, poorer and rural whites. You can't go back. The country club crowd is gone, and it would be crazy to abandon your new base.



Nope. Never heard such a thing. The Republicans actually had huge electoral gains under Obama. Obama's opponents were anti-Trump Republican centrists (McCain and Romney).
Ugh, yeah. Democrats laughed at Romney in 2012 for saying Russia is our biggest geopolitical enemy. Now they act like Putin is Hitler. They also hated free trade because it hurt union workers, now they remind me of the libertarian party when it comes to trade. The media will always be seen negatively for conservatives, for obvious reasons. But yeah, parties change platforms quite frequently. It might not go back exactly how it was, but it will more or less.

Really, a very reductionist way of looking at it, where do you think those "country club" republicans will go after Trump? To the Democrats and their promise of higher taxes? Lets be real.
     
     
  #270  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 2:23 PM
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Even Republicans know Republicans are done

Quote:
George Will: Young people now consider GOP 'the dumb party'

Conservative columnist and author George Will told CNBC on Thursday that young people consider the Republican Party "the dumb party" while warning that the GOP is "doing its very best to drive them away permanently"

The perspective comes after Will was asked to respond to a recent piece by New York Times columnist David Brooks that warned of a "coming GOP apocalypse" as younger adults leave the party.

“I think David Brooks is late to the apocalypse,” Will told CNBC's Kelly Evans. “I think it’s already happened. In fact, young people have made up their mind about the Republican Party, that it’s kind of the dumb party.”
     
     
  #271  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 2:43 PM
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The wave of Sharia Law sweeping across the South at the moment isn't exactly helping their cause either, pretty much alienating anyone who isn't white and angry.

These hee haws in state governments appeasing their local "base" while shooting themselves in the foot nationally. "The Dumb Party" indeed.
     
     
  #272  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 2:43 PM
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Ugh, yeah. Democrats laughed at Romney in 2012 for saying Russia is our biggest geopolitical enemy. Now they act like Putin is Hitler. They also hated free trade because it hurt union workers, now they remind me of the libertarian party when it comes to trade. The media will always be seen negatively for conservatives, for obvious reasons. But yeah, parties change platforms quite frequently. It might not go back exactly how it was, but it will more or less.
I'm not responding to the kneejerk Whataboutisms. The fact is that, policywise, the Republican party is the polar opposite of the party prior to Trump, and there is no reason for this switch except Trump. This hasn't happened in either party, ever. There has never been an policy inversion based on a personality cult.
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Really, a very reductionist way of looking at it, where do you think those "country club" republicans will go after Trump? To the Democrats and their promise of higher taxes? Lets be real.
That's already happened. Wealthy suburban America turned blue, entirely due to Trump. No, they don't want higher taxes, but they don't want their kids dead or country destroyed either. There are worse fears than higher taxes.

Also, as I'm sure you're aware, the tax cuts were only for the extreme wealthy, and had nothing to do with Trump. Regular upper middle class suburbanites had little or no reduction in taxes, and few will trade democracy or their kids future for a few hundred less in annual taxes.
     
     
  #273  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 2:59 PM
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I don't really care either way, but I think it's pretty clear that the people who kneel during the anthem aren't doing as a sign of respect. Anyway, it's certainly not out of respect for the anthem, the flag, etc.
How is it pretty clear? Do you realize this started out with players sitting during the national anthem? Then some service members were upset (understandably) and talked with Colin Kaepernick. They asked him to please kneel instead because it still shows respect and ever since that's what it's been. I've even seen players kneel and put their hand over their heart. This is not something to get all up in arms about. People are so petty and scared nowadays, it's ridiculous.
     
     
  #274  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:02 PM
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How is it pretty clear? Do you realize this started out with players sitting during the national anthem? Then some service members were upset (understandably) and talked with Colin Kaepernick. They asked him to please kneel instead because it still shows respect and ever since that's what it's been. I've even seen players kneel and put their hand over their heart. This is not something to get all up in arms about. People are so petty and scared nowadays, it's ridiculous.
Let me be clearer in case you didn't get it the first time: I don't give a shit.

But it's still clearly a form of civil disobedience, meant to "opt out" of patriotism, loyalty, etc.
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  #275  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:10 PM
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Let me be clearer in case you didn't get it the first time: I don't give a shit
Lol... actually what you said was:

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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I don't really care either way, but I think it's pretty clear that the people who kneel during the anthem aren't doing as a sign of respect. Anyway, it's certainly not out of respect for the anthem, the flag, etc.
You don't care, yet you put in that infamous word "but" before explaining why you actually really do care. You somehow know that it's a clear sign of disrespect with literally no proof. Has a current player who took a knee ever say something like "f this country" or something in a quote that you can share?

Quote:
But it's still clearly a form of civil disobedience, meant to "opt out" of patriotism, loyalty, etc.
Again it's not. It's shining a light on an ongoing issue in this country while still showing reverence to those who have served in this country.

I want to know at which point in history did kneeling turn into disrespect?
     
     
  #276  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:16 PM
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I simply got the impression that you're arguing that the players kneeling are actually doing this to *be respectful* or even *more respectful*. Portraying it as something that it actually isn't.

Anyway, I don't think any one of us can claim to know what's in each individual player's mind when he "takes a knee".
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  #277  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:22 PM
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I simply got the impression that you're arguing that the players kneeling are actually doing this to *be respectful* or even *more respectful*. Portraying it as something that it actually isn't.

Anyway, I don't think any one of us can claim to know what's in each individual player's mind when he "takes a knee".
We don't know for certain but we do have quotes from players explaining why they kneel. Also I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
     
     
  #278  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 4:00 PM
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That's already happened. Wealthy suburban America turned blue, entirely due to Trump. No, they don't want higher taxes, but they don't want their kids dead or country destroyed either. There are worse fears than higher taxes.
The vast majority of wealthy suburban America will flip back to red the moment a leveled headed conservative candidate comes back to the fold. Gone are the days of the moderate country club types but the Republican party still resonates with a lot of small(er) government affluent people and they still vote Republican in all other races. Voting against Trump does not mean these areas turned blue...they are still very much red. They just have limits.
     
     
  #279  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 7:04 PM
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I'm not responding to the kneejerk Whataboutisms. The fact is that, policywise, the Republican party is the polar opposite of the party prior to Trump, and there is no reason for this switch except Trump. This hasn't happened in either party, ever. There has never been an policy inversion based on a personality cult.


That's already happened. Wealthy suburban America turned blue, entirely due to Trump. No, they don't want higher taxes, but they don't want their kids dead or country destroyed either. There are worse fears than higher taxes.

Also, as I'm sure you're aware, the tax cuts were only for the extreme wealthy, and had nothing to do with Trump. Regular upper middle class suburbanites had little or no reduction in taxes, and few will trade democracy or their kids future for a few hundred less in annual taxes.
You obviously aren't neutral in this conversation with "but they don't want their kids dead or country destroyed." I could dispute this claim to show that democrat ran cities are the most dangerous(and you would come back saying the South is the most dangerous) yadda yadda but to claim voting Republican means you are putting your kids in danger, is so partisan I have nothing to say.
     
     
  #280  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 7:06 PM
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take it to that shithole of stupidity known as the current events subforum.
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