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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 10:48 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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Of the big three cities in Canada, Toronto, although a generally progressive city, is the most conservative.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 11:54 PM
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If we are talking metro areas, LA is the least conservative. ethnic whites are pretty darn conservative (Italians, Irish, east Europeans) and they are heavily represented in NY and Chicago.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 12:08 AM
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They're all very liberal cities, this is like asking which latte is the least liquidy.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by The North One View Post
They're all very liberal cities, this is like asking which latte is the least liquidy.
Sure, but it makes for more interesting discussion than which is more conservative: Seattle or Tulsa?
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 3:11 AM
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Don't know about overall, but when it comes to development policy it's not even a discussion.

EDIT: nevermind, I didn't realize this was about the actual populace.
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Last edited by JDRCRASH; Jan 9, 2017 at 3:31 AM.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 4:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Of the big three cities in Canada, Toronto, although a generally progressive city, is the most conservative.
Agree and surprisingly a lot of that conservatism is due to immigration. Western liberal views like gender equality, LGBTQ rights, abortion, and atheism often conflict with the views of these immigrant groups. A huge number of immigrants voted for Rob Ford, for instance.

Support for multi-culturalism/diversity is the one area where it's Montreal that's the most conservative of the 3 big cities. Some of it is due to Quebec not signing the 1982 Canadian Constitution which includes the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The Charter fundamentally changed how Canadians viewed their country. As Quebec never signed this didn't happen in Quebec. By extension, multiculturalism is less ingrained there.

Quebecois have historically felt the french fact under threat in an anglo north America so multiculturalism/diversity is seen as another threat rather than a benefit. Quebecois are far more likely to desire that newcomers adhere to entrenched behaviour when it comes to language, religion, dress, customs, traditions, past times.

Anglo Canadians are far less likely to define their nationality by language and culture but by a shared set of Canadian values as hashed out in the Charter. I'm a child of the Charter and view it as what defines me as a Canadian rather than language, playing hockey, or being a Christian. It's a very post-modern way of defining nationality; one that is diametrically opposed to how nationality is defined in other countries.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 9:54 PM
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Trump did better in the NYC metro than the other 3 and its not close. Trump did better in the NYC suburban counties than Illinois ones. Though it was clearly a home state boost. The Nassau County Republican Party endorsed Trump early on; county executive endorsed both Trump and Cuomo.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 10:00 PM
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Trump didn't win a single ward in Chicago

http://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/...lts-President/

he won a number of NYC neighborhoods outside of the Hasidic neighborhoods, and narrowly lost a few more

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/num...al-primary-nyc
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  #29  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 10:22 PM
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New York. People tend to think it is a liberal progressive mecca. It's not. It has pockets of very progressive areas with progressive city leaders (though they also had Giuliani and Bloomberg) but it's always been overall pretty moderate sending moderate left representatives to Albany and DC.

Some of them even right-wing nut jobs. Anyone remember Alphonse D'Amato? I won't get into the president-elect.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 10:41 PM
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The Trump vote is a terrible proxy for making a determination on which city is the most conservative. But that's another topic.


If a first-time visitor with no prior knowledge of each were to spend 2 days in each city, Chicago would likely feel the most "conservative", given its "Midwestern sensibilities", and relative orderliness and normalcy in comparison to NYC and LA.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
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Trump didn't win a single ward in Chicago

http://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/...lts-President/
i'm proud to say that my majority white ward (the 48th) voted 86% - 10% for clinton.



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Originally Posted by nei View Post
he won a number of NYC neighborhoods outside of the Hasidic neighborhoods, and narrowly lost a few more

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/num...al-primary-nyc
what the fuck are they putting in the water on staten island? jesus.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 10:54 PM
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what the fuck are they putting in the water on staten island? jesus.
Spaghetti sauce
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  #33  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 11:00 PM
Emprise du Lion Emprise du Lion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Trump didn't win a single ward in Chicago

http://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/...lts-President/
Interestingly enough, more Chicagoans voted for Hillary than Obama in 2012.
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/num...al-primary-nyc

I'm also glad that Chicago had to split hairs down to the precinct level to find areas that majority voted for Trump

Last edited by Emprise du Lion; Jan 9, 2017 at 11:07 PM. Reason: Didn't notice the other charts in the Chicago Mag article
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  #34  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2017, 5:00 PM
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^ that has more to do with the way ward boundaries are drawn in Chicago, though. There's sort of an unspoken 3-way balance between white, black and Latino wards. Some enclaves of those groups are diluted by gerrymandering to maintain the overall balance. Trump probably could have picked up a ward or two if the boundaries were drawn differently.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2017, 5:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Trump didn't win a single ward in Chicago

http://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/...lts-President/

he won a number of NYC neighborhoods outside of the Hasidic neighborhoods, and narrowly lost a few more

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/num...al-primary-nyc
You're making an assumption that a higher % of Trump voters is a proxy for "more conservative". Trump isn't a a traditional candidate, and doesn't espouse typical conservative policy stances. His support doesn't follow traditional cleavages.

And the non-Hasidic neighborhoods in NYC where Trump won also don't exist in Chicago. The other neighborhoods are dominated by former Soviets or Southern Italians.

The outer Chicago neighborhoods have a very different typology. They're basically "cop neighborhoods" and tend to vote Dem, but are quite conservative by most measures. Again, I'm highly skeptical an Irish-American cop/firefighter neighborhood in Chicago is more liberal than an Italian or Russian neigborhood in NYC, even if the Presidential voting patterns differ somewhat.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2017, 5:20 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
Trump did better in the NYC metro than the other 3 and its not close. Trump did better in the NYC suburban counties than Illinois ones. Though it was clearly a home state boost.
That doesn't make any sense as 1. NY State had a significantly lower proportion of Trump voters than Illinois and 2. About half the NYC metro isn't in NY State.

Trump did (relatively) well on Long Island because of the unique demographics, not because of a home-state advantage. Long Island has tons of Orthodox Jews, South Italians and Russians. If you draw down to census tract you see he won where those groups predominate. Note that Westchester had few Trump voters; it also doesn't have nearly as many such ethnic enclaves.

If anything, Trump is least popular where he's best known (he got destroyed in Manhattan; I think worse than any urban county in the U.S.).
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  #37  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2017, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Trump probably could have picked up a ward or two if the boundaries were drawn differently.
doubtful.

even in the conservative "cop & fireman" 41st ward on the far NW side (82% white and the only ward in the city with a republican alderman) trump came closer to winning there than any other ward in chicago, but he still lost by 9 points.

looking at the precinct map results, i don't know how you'd gerrymander that one even more to make up a 9 point deficit.

the city of chicago made it very clear that it despises the overgrown oompa-loompa. even in the most conservative ward in the whole city, it still wasn't close.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jan 10, 2017 at 5:51 PM.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2017, 5:51 PM
nei nei is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
The outer Chicago neighborhoods have a very different typology. They're basically "cop neighborhoods" and tend to vote Dem, but are quite conservative by most measures. Again, I'm highly skeptical an Irish-American cop/firefighter neighborhood in Chicago is more liberal than an Italian or Russian neigborhood in NYC, even if the Presidential voting patterns differ somewhat.
The cop/firefighters neighborhoods in NYC region, at least white ones went heavily for Trump. I'm a bit surprised the same wasn't true of Chicago; isn't that kinda Trump's base? I'm not familiar enough with Chicago to really judge by culture.

I guess there's several different ways to answer the question: using the most recent election, previous election, or some more qualitative feel answer.

Quote:
That doesn't make any sense as 1. NY State had a significantly lower proportion of Trump voters than Illinois and 2. About half the NYC metro isn't in NY State.
Perhaps I should have said Trump did better in NYC suburbs than in Chicago suburbs. Trump did better in NYC than Chicago proper but NYC is a much larger portion of the Chicago metro area.

Quote:
Trump did (relatively) well on Long Island because of the unique demographics, not because of a home-state advantage. Long Island has tons of Orthodox Jews, South Italians and Russians. If you draw down to census tract you see he won where those groups predominate. Note that Westchester had few Trump voters; it also doesn't have nearly as many such ethnic enclaves.

If anything, Trump is least popular where he's best known (he got destroyed in Manhattan; I think worse than any urban county in the U.S.).
Long Island has some Orthodox Jews in western Nassau but otherwise not many. Can't think of where there's a large Russian population. Westchester has the most educated and professional white population of the NYC suburban counties + a large minority population. Long Island is more typical of the white population of the region than Westchester is, it's not that unique. Manhattan is heavily transplant, not sure if it's fair to say it's where "he's best known".
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  #39  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2017, 6:08 PM
nei nei is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post

what the fuck are they putting in the water on staten island? jesus.
Staten Island was Trump's best county in the primaries. Though the media focused on Appalachia counties for articles about "Trump's best counties" in the primary season.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2017, 6:56 PM
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Staten Island was Trump's best county in the primaries. Though the media focused on Appalachia counties for articles about "Trump's best counties" in the primary season.
exactly. thats what you get when ny runs the media for ya. they can ignore staten island and deflect focus on appalachia, the west, the midwest, etc.. is it any wonder trump's win caught the manhattan-centric parochial national media business here so off guard? its a peeve and it makes me sick sometimes how biased and lazy it can be. my favorite bias is from back when the ny/nj waterfront had industrial pollution fires going somewhere every day into the 1980s, but oh no cleveland has one effing fire in the cuyahoga river and it's the burning water city.
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