Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by deasine

Just to be clear, the three Aquilini towers don't really "incorporate" the viaducts, but are built "around them." The proposed developments have virtually no connections to the viaduct.

It seems to me that most people looking at those Aquilini renderings always forget the fourth tower - the 'ghost tower' situated north of GM Place which appears to be built over the skytrain guideway.

If the Aquilini Group has figured out how to build an arena and four towers beside both of the viaducts and also over the Skytrain guideways, why is there so much fuss about building around the viaducts by Concord & the City?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by paradigm4

I know you guys already have your minds made up, and I'm not interested in the argument, but let it be known that I love this proposal. The muted response to the viaducts' potential removal leads me to believe the general public is also quite open to this proposal.

The muted response has more to do with Vancouver's traditional apathetic voter turnout, combined with vast swaths of the city being sold off to people who don't even live here full time and hence don't care. Unfortunately that gives dewey eyed urban planning grads the chance to enact some truly stupid plans in the Resort Municipality of Vancouver.

[jlousa]

The south tower could've been intergrated with the viaduct but it was a non starter from the get go as they were told that the Georgia viaduct was coming down.

"They're different projects at different stages, but Vision Vancouver Coun. Geoff Meggs says they're both important to the future of the area.
We've been thinking all along how to plan for that area with the viaducts," he said. "Now the door is open to plan without them, and to have decisions coming . . . is very exciting."

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/To...141/story.html

Am I the only one that reads that and wonders which way he'll vote on the issue?

[xd_1771]

that is all.
I am somewhat disappointed that just about hardly anybody involved in this issue seems to be looking at Japan as a suitable example.

[Metro-One]

Dude, I have been advocating that since the start. This is one of the main reasons why Japanese cities are so much fun and so interesting, because they embrace urbanism. Many of the best entertainment districts are located in and around (and under) elevated highways and railways. Vancouver had an opportunity to make a very unique neighborhood, one different from the others, and possibly a true entertainment zone, but no, instead we are getting a sterile massive green field (which could be built with the viaducts in place!) and another Yaletown carbon copy vacation condo complex.

I love how they call this proposal "Bold and new", yet there is absolutely nothing new and bold about it.

[jsbertram]

What
Would
Bjarke Ingels
Do?

oh, wait ... He's already shown us at 1400 Howe.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The muted response has more to do with Vancouver's traditional apathetic voter turnout, combined with vast swaths of the city being sold off to people who don't even live here full time and hence don't care. Unfortunately that gives dewey eyed urban planning grads the chance to enact some truly stupid plans in the Resort Municipality of Vancouver.

I think you hit the nail on the head!

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Dude, I have been advocating that since the start. This is one of the main reasons why Japanese cities are so much fun and so interesting, because they embrace urbanism.

It's all a matter of opinion of course. I'm in the minority here, but I would call the viaducts anti-urbanism.

I presume that picture is in Tokyo. I don't suppose you know the coordinates on Google Earth so I could take a look on street view?

[Citylights]

Originally Posted by logan5

It's all a matter of opinion of course. I'm in the minority here, but I would call the viaducts anti-urbanism.

I presume that picture is in Tokyo. I don't suppose you know the coordinates on Google Earth so I could take a look on street view?

Google Image search gave me this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate_Tower_Building

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Citylights

Google Image search gave me this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate_Tower_Building

Lat/Long coordinates are listed in the wikipedia article.

Link.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by logan5

It's all a matter of opinion of course. I'm in the minority here, but I would call the viaducts anti-urbanism.

I presume that picture is in Tokyo. I don't suppose you know the coordinates on Google Earth so I could take a look on street view?

It's in Osaka and it's a ramp off the urban highway. If I'm not mistaken, the owner of the land didn't want to sell when they wanted to expropriate the land.

The two structures are built completely separate from each other with no interdependence. Theoretically, this means either the road or the building could be changed or replaced without removing the other structure.

An important element of Japanese urban freeways is the care and attention they put into noise barriers. Japanese highways have extensive noise barriers. This makes the structure far quieter than any arterial.

[logan5]

Thanks for the links.

I like density, but Japanese cities are too intense for me. The viaducts there are completely lined with apartments.

[DKaz]

That's what you get when you 128 million people live in a country that's roughly half the size of British Columbia.

Side note, when I was in Japan, a friend drove about 100km to hang out with me, she had to pay $22 in tolls each way. She decided to take the train next time lol.

[officedweller]

This is from the 800 Griffiths Way CD-1 Rezoning report to be approved by City Council this week - The second plan shows the Georgia intersection at Pacific. Traffic on the grand Pacific Blvd funnelled up to Georgia Street, but a last minute connection to Expo Bld is provided via Griffiths Way. And it looks like there's a bike lane on that 5% grade.

Anyone else think that the new Georgia Street extension will take up land that was supposed to be used for the Georgia Steps?

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/...cuments/p5.pdf


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Bye-Bye Georgia Steps?

Info on Georgia Steps from BC Place thread:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...151228&page=87

Originally Posted by jlousa

Okay this is kind of BC Place related, and it's probably the best place for it.
It's regarding the Georgia St connector.

OVERVIEW OF THE GEORGIA PEDESTRIAN LINK
The Georgia Pedestrian Link will connect False Creek to the Central Core of Downtown Vancouver. The link will run along the east side of BC Place Stadium from the corner of Georgia and Beatty Street to Pacific Blvd. All three options feature an elevator. Options two and three feature pathways at 5% slope.

OPTION 1 - GEORGIA STAIRS
(pedestrian only- aligned stairs + elevator)

Circulation
• pedestrian stairs aligned to Georgia Street
• bicycle access to southwest side of BC Place Stadium
• transparent elevator (4 levels)
• optional overpass over Pacific Boulevard

Concept
• grand wide stairs
• iconic ‘ light pillars’
• weather protection (glass canopy)
• green spaces
- bosque of trees
- lawn paving
- seating, gathering opportunities
• continuation of concept to False Creek waterbody across Pacific c Boulevard









OPTION 2 - GEORGIA RIBBON
(pedestrian / barrier free / cyclist - aligned stairs + elevator + 5% pathway @ min. 5m width)

Circulation
• pedestrian stairs aligned to Georgia Street
• combined bicycle / disabled access on continuous pathway (5% slope, -8m width)
• transparent elevator (4 levels)
• optional overpass over Pacific Boulevard

Concept
• Georgia Ribbon - an iconic pathway
- winding informal edge
- edges defined by the red ribbon wall
- “The Wall of Fame” (sports & entertainment)
• ribbon winds through and over plaza and green spaces
• continuation of concept to False Creek water body across Pacific Boulevard









OPTION 3 - GEORGIA RED POLES
(pedestrian / barrier free / cyclist - aligned stairs + elevator + 5% pathway @ 5m width)

Circulation
• pedestrian stairs aligned to Georgia Street
• combined bicycle / disabled access on continuous pathway (5% slope, 5m width)
• transparent elevator (4 levels)
• optional overpass over Pacific Boulevard

Concept
• Iconic lite red poles connect Georgia Street to False Creek water body • informal meandering pathway wraps between red poles (Asian Zigzag bridge)
• continuation of concept to False Creek water body across Pacific Boulevard









Personally I favour a combination of 2 and 3, if I had to choose one I'd go with 3. Let hear your opinions.

[jlousa]

I'm sure we'll be presented with a scaled down version of the steps off to one side. The renders supplied by the city also fail to include the fence that will be required in front of the future International Village elementary school. Will kind of suck for the kids to be stuck next to 40K drivers driving on the surface street next to them as they make their way to and from school each day.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Honestyl?

They are essentially the only good option downtown for anyone driving a commercial vehicle. Also, my favorite part of downtown is where the stadiums, the skytrain and the viaducts meet, it is the only spot in our region where one can find a true "urban" beauty. In that one spot it feels so busy, two levels of roads (one serving local, one serving regional), trains, pedestrians, stadiums, towers, LED signs, it great! In fact, such a feature can force developers to be more creative in their designs, creating far more enticing neighborhoods than Yale Town, it also gives a little bit of shove to actually build something besides condos near the ducts. The skate park is another example of a true urban vibe not found elsewhere in this city. There is no reason why night market grounds, more park space or even a multi-story parking garage for the stadiums can not be built under these viaducts! How about even creating a funky urban art gallery? Also, is it not a prime spot to place city work utilities?

Honestly, I don't want every corner of this city to be a Yaletown for developers to ching ching on.

I am probably the minority in this case, but oh well, I can always go back to Asia where one can find elevated highways and train structures that are so well implemented into the urban fabric, that they themselves become an attraction.

Again, I like them, because they add just a little bit or urban variety in a city that while amazing, can become somewhat repetative.

I couldn't agree with you more. I know this post is really old, but it's so true.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by officedweller

This is from the 800 Griffiths Way CD-1 Rezoning report to be approved by City Council this week - The second plan shows the Georgia intersection at Pacific. Traffic on the grand Pacific Blvd funnelled up to Georgia Street, but a last minute connection to Expo Bld is provided via Griffiths Way. And it looks like there's a bike lane on that 5% grade.

Anyone else think that the new Georgia Street extension will take up land that was supposed to be used for the Georgia Steps?

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/...cuments/p5.pdf


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...

The grey areas outlined on these two pages seem to show that the removal of the viaducts and rebuilding Pacific Blvd as a two-way street on a northern alignment is much closer to reality than anyone thought during the recent open houses.

Anyone else feel that last weeks' open houses were just a necessary song'n'dance to let people think that the decision to pull the viaducts isn't a fait accompli?

Someone in the City thinks this is a done deal, otherwise why include the two-way Pacific Blvd and the two-way Georgia Street extension? They could have just as easily drawn in the shaded areas as 'proposed' and 'option to purchase' without changing Pacific Blvd or including the intersection with the Georgia Street extension.

[p78hub]

Originally Posted by cornholio

I think its time people started informing others of what is happening behind the scenes.

Those of you who can, and I know there are a few here, collect and document all information that is suspicious regarding this likely(and im being generous) viaduct fiasco. Make sure to back it up, properly and dont miss any details no matter how trivial. Every little fact counts, trust me. You will know what to do with it when the time comes.

I have said on here a few times that city politics are imo "corrupt" the unfortunate side effect of only some 30% of the population voting and paying no attention. But like in all bad situations you can always find a bit of good, this makes people get lazy and complacent with the "illegal" stuff they do. Oh and yes there is plenty of illegal stuff going on with these viaducts, not just twisting facts but flat out rigging the facts, among other things.

I will have a surprise ready for all of you here, maybe soon, depends on the timing. I will send a sneak peak to two people here who I think I can gamble on making good use of the information and keeping it to them selves for now.

Was it Matrix where they said "if you cant fight the system, use the system" ? Or something along those lines. Anyways good point for people to remember.

Whatever happened to this? I'd love to know what sort of illegal shenanigans are going on at city hall. Anything to expose Moonbeam and company for the people they really are.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Dude, I have been advocating that since the start. This is one of the main reasons why Japanese cities are so much fun and so interesting, because they embrace urbanism. Many of the best entertainment districts are located in and around (and under) elevated highways and railways. Vancouver had an opportunity to make a very unique neighborhood, one different from the others, and possibly a true entertainment zone, but no, instead we are getting a sterile massive green field (which could be built with the viaducts in place!) and another Yaletown carbon copy vacation condo complex.

I love how they call this proposal "Bold and new", yet there is absolutely nothing new and bold about it.

I think I'll join you!!!
Japanese architecture has been a huge, huge inspiration for me lately. There are just too many good examples that could apply here.
I find it fairly annoying how people seriously underestimate the ability of an elevated guideway (whether for road or rail) to integrate with a community. Mayor Watts has been pretty big as a spreader of this hypocrisy. "SkyTrain will split our communities".... pfft. Not that it can always be done - I think there are some notable exceptions like Seattle's Alaskan Way Viaduct; but this isn't a double decker viaduct across a waterfront we're talking about here.

[easy as pie]

Originally Posted by p78hub

Whatever happened to this? I'd love to know what sort of illegal shenanigans are going on at city hall. Anything to expose Moonbeam and company for the people they really are.

what happened to it was that it was the rambling of a lunatic.