Perception of big cities

[Mountain man]

There tends to be a large perception on large cities, particularly in the older generations and suburbanites that big cities/down towns are extremely dangerous, crime ridden, drug ridden places. In my time of traveling, I have noticed that just about every large downtown I have been to has been fairly clean, safe, and enjoyable to be in. Why does this perception exists? Is it because Hollywood portrays most crime and action stuff in the urban cores? Or is it because most people lived through the early 90's when crime took over urban areas for a brief amount in time and can't seem to really move on? I really am looking for an answer as it bothers me how no matter where I go there tends to be a lot of city hating folks who think that big urban cities are so horrible to go to. I can think of many large cities that have much more crime in the suburbs than they do in their urban cores. So why are there so many people still so afraid of the city?

And how can we help people see that most urban cores aren't Flint Michigan or Juarez?

[tdawg]

Invite them to visit your city and show them around. I did that with my brother-in-law from El Paso, TX who visited NYC for the first time last November. He was blown away by how friendly New Yorkers are and how safe the city is. And he's a sheriff!

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Mountain man

And how can we help people see that most urban cores aren't Flint Michigan or Juarez?

This is because until the mid 1990's downtowns almost everywhere were dirty, dangerous and crime-filled. Cities have been going through a renaissance unlike anything people alive today have seen outside of maybe the Chicago Loop or Manhattan

The reason why people in the 40's-2000 wanted to leave the cities for shiny new car suburbs was because cities were crowded, polluted, crime filled and dangerous.

Why did cities become so bad? why have they now improved? Well that is a really complex question involving lots of factors from race relations, politics, cultural changes, technology on and on and on. Hard to explain from one single factor, suffice it to say many different pressures helped make cities undesirable, and now many different pressures have reversed that.

[cannedairspray]

Maybe it's because I grew up like two miles from downtown Chicago in the 80s and 90s, but I never thought it was really that crime ridden...

[pj3000]

Because people are scared (or at least skeptical/suspicious) of the unknown.

To older generations and suburbanites, big cities/downtowns are the unknown.

Ignorance.

[Northern Light]

I think the first thing is to say the obvious, but un-stated, this idea largely refers to Americans in the developed world. At least in my experience Canadians, Europeans, East Asians, Australians etc. don't find cities particularly scary.

Moving on from there, I think there are 2 things specific to the American experience.

The first is that the U.S. is a low-trust society.

While were obviously dealing in generalizations here, Americans are much more into fences, gates, space from one's neighbour, and just aren't as trusting of each other or the state, as compared with many other peoples.

If you are raised from a young age, both explicitly and subconsciously to fear others, then cities are gonna scare you relative to suburbs or small towns as there are so many more people, so many more strangers, and so many more 'others', living closer together.

Beyond that, I would suggest that U.S. 'race relations' are a big factor here. Minorities tend to be concentrated in many urban centres, while 'whites' tend to dominate more suburban an rural areas.

Of course, there are exceptions, but I would say the above is the norm in the U.S. context.

Given that many Americans are raised with a general fear of others, and that those who look less like 'us' (whatever your 'us' is) tend to be relatively more fear-inducing, more unknown etc., it should surprise no one that those who are 'safely' ensconsed in their more homogeneous group, with more space, and fences, might wish to stay there.

***

Add to that, the perceptions of poverty, which certainly don't apply in many downtowns/urban areas, but do in some; and which have been broadly showcased in American culture and urban areas become less desirable still.

Finally, you have the practical, many cities have downtowns that while clean, have low residential population and are near ghostly after dark. In so far as those are upmarket, clean examples of urban form, they don't always offer the amenities people might require to live from grocery stores to childcare.

****

The above is changing.

Its a function of many different things from secular declines in crime (mostly demographically driven by fewer teens), to reinvestments in downtowns as showpieces.

Its also a function of popular culture where tv and cinema have moved to showcase urban living in a more positive way; a move to allow and facilitate greater residential and mixed-use development in core areas; and a newer generation which while far from prejudice-free has grown up in greater numbers exposed to more positive images of folks from different backgrounds; and have come to view suburbia less as respite from the world and more as isolation from the action.

Just my 2 cents.

[The North One]

The US has a history/culture of sabotaging it's own cities. It's really fucking stupid.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by The North One

The US has a history/culture of sabotaging it's own cities. It's really fucking stupid.

I disagree since the drive virtually everywhere in the country is to improve the cities now, it was a 20th century thing.

Cities were crowded and had high crime and in the mid century you had the urban renewal types and suburbia pushers that thought they had a better solution.

I believe they actually thought it was a good idea but it turned out not to be. The perceptions the original poster is talking about stems from the very real crime problem, followed by the destruction of downtowns that didn't help.

Many of them have lived out in suburbs since the 1980's especially older people, they have no concept of the turnaround cities have gotten for the most part.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Northern Light

Beyond that, I would suggest that U.S. 'race relations' are a big factor here. Minorities tend to be concentrated in many urban centres, while 'whites' tend to dominate more suburban an rural areas.

Of course, there are exceptions, but I would say the above is the norm in the U.S. context.

Minorities are concentrated in urban areas in other countries too. The examples, given as contrasts to the US -- places like Canada, Australia, European countries have an even more strong gap between "whites" being over-represented in suburban, exurban and rural areas, while the big or major cities have more non-whites proportionally. The US actually has quite a lot of non-urban minorities, like black and Hispanics in smaller towns etc.

[Innsertnamehere]

Trust me the perception exists in rural Canada. Maybe less so in the suburbs, but I grew up in a rural community an hour outside of Toronto on the edge of the commuter belt, and many consider downtown "dirty". Majority only go downtown for sports events. They drive down, pass the homeless begging on the off ramp and in front of the stadium among the scalpers, go to the game, and get back in their car. Maybe stop for dinner at a suburban chain around the stadium while they are there.

Regarding race, downtown Toronto is such a huge mix of races that no one really comes to the forefront. While it may be "uncomfortable" for someone used to a nearly entirely white population, you don't feel like you are a minority like you might if you went to one of the suburbs where specific minority groups dominate the population.

The US is unique in its rural minority groups, which isn't something you see in Canada. Rural Canada is entirely white dominated. Driving through the Central Valley in California or rural Texas can bring you through dozens of Hispanic rural communities, something that absolutely doesn't happen north of the border.

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by Northern Light

I think the first thing is to say the obvious, but un-stated, this idea largely refers to Americans in the developed world. At least in my experience Canadians, Europeans, East Asians, Australians etc. don't find cities particularly scary.

Moving on from there, I think there are 2 things specific to the American experience.

The first is that the U.S. is a low-trust society.

While were obviously dealing in generalizations here, Americans are much more into fences, gates, space from one's neighbour, and just aren't as trusting of each other or the state, as compared with many other peoples.

If you are raised from a young age, both explicitly and subconsciously to fear others, then cities are gonna scare you relative to suburbs or small towns as there are so many more people, so many more strangers, and so many more 'others', living closer together.

Beyond that, I would suggest that U.S. 'race relations' are a big factor here. Minorities tend to be concentrated in many urban centres, while 'whites' tend to dominate more suburban an rural areas.

Of course, there are exceptions, but I would say the above is the norm in the U.S. context.

Given that many Americans are raised with a general fear of others, and that those who look less like 'us' (whatever your 'us' is) tend to be relatively more fear-inducing, more unknown etc., it should surprise no one that those who are 'safely' ensconsed in their more homogeneous group, with more space, and fences, might wish to stay there.

***

Add to that, the perceptions of poverty, which certainly don't apply in many downtowns/urban areas, but do in some; and which have been broadly showcased in American culture and urban areas become less desirable still.

Finally, you have the practical, many cities have downtowns that while clean, have low residential population and are near ghostly after dark. In so far as those are upmarket, clean examples of urban form, they don't always offer the amenities people might require to live from grocery stores to childcare.

****

The above is changing.

Its a function of many different things from secular declines in crime (mostly demographically driven by fewer teens), to reinvestments in downtowns as showpieces.

Its also a function of popular culture where tv and cinema have moved to showcase urban living in a more positive way; a move to allow and facilitate greater residential and mixed-use development in core areas; and a newer generation which while far from prejudice-free has grown up in greater numbers exposed to more positive images of folks from different backgrounds; and have come to view suburbia less as respite from the world and more as isolation from the action.

Just my 2 cents.

Americans are raised with a fear of others? you moron.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Because people are scared (or at least skeptical/suspicious) of the unknown.

To older generations and suburbanites, big cities/downtowns are the unknown.

Ignorance.

Pretty much this in a nutshell.

This, along with the 24 hour news cycle, where of course "if it bleeds, it leads!", serves to keep the average suburbanite scared sh*tless of coming into the big, dangerous, horrible city, except of course when it comes to major sporting events, cultural events, and of course many of their jobs downtown!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The US is unique in its rural minority groups, which isn't something you see in Canada. Rural Canada is entirely white dominated. Driving through the Central Valley in California or rural Texas can bring you through dozens of Hispanic rural communities, something that absolutely doesn't happen north of the border.

If you don't count aboriginal groups, that is.

Also, Canada did have proportionally more rural visible minority groups in the past, even though in raw numbers they were very small (well, then again, most people to begin with were more rural in generations in the past, before the rise of big cities), but they are far outnumbered today by visible minorities who are urbanites.

For example, black Canadian (descended from African American) block settlements in small town rural western Canada. Asian immigrant manual laborers (eg. Sikh and Chinese/Japanese) in small town BC who worked on lumber mills and railways. Some of these places have their communities long since left the area.



Paldi, BC (now an abandoned town).



Saltspring Island, BC.


http://www.desitoday.ca/paldi-town-s...-sikh-history/
http://vi-asiancanadians.ca/2015/09/24/paldi-memories/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...lack-1.3433086
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_...rican_American

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Driving through the Central Valley in California or rural Texas can bring you through dozens of Hispanic rural communities, something that absolutely doesn't happen north of the border.

Not near anywhere on the same scale, but Brooks, Alberta, is an example in Canada of a modern day town in a rural area with lots of minorities, with immigrants working in the meat industry.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...f_alberta.html

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/the180/the-1...ties-1.3486984

[Northern Light]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Americans are raised with a fear of others? you moron.

Your reply speaks ill of you.

I was in no way disrespectful to you, or to the United States.

I also spoke factually.

https://ourworldindata.org/trust

http://www.pewglobal.org/2008/04/15/...ption-are-low/

When compared with Canada, or northern Europe, the United States is a low-trust society.

Moreover, having visited the United States on any number of occasions I can say I have observed personally a greater preponderance of fences, of gated communities, and of groups that don't socially interact with each other, than what I am used to in Canada.

This is not a phenomena unique to the United States, as the links I have posted illustrate, but it is an element in understanding the OP's question.

But as you prefer to throw insults, rather than carefully consider pertinent, evidence-based posts, I won't engage further in your belated education.

[Chef]

In the '80s and '90s most American cities were really messed up and borderline out of control. The things I saw in New York in the '80s would be shocking to most who have grown up since then and have no first hand experience of that era. It wasn't even necessarily the crime per se, but the chaos and breakdown of self control. It was anarchy in NYC, laws were mere suggestions. You would see things that were shocking and unbelievable on a regular basis. It was all id, no superego.

Even in Minneapolis in the early '90s I would hear gunshots at least three times a week, there were storefront brothels all over the city and you could buy crack on street corners in recently middle class neighborhoods.

Old people think of cities as dangerous places because they remember when they genuinely were and haven't adjusted their perceptions as times have changed.

[pizzaguy]

Originally Posted by The North One

The US has a history/culture of sabotaging it's own cities. It's really fucking racist.

fixed

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by pizzaguy

fixed

Newsflash: all societies are really fucking racist, the only ones that try not to be are Western Europe and North America.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

If you don't count aboriginal groups, that is.

I would hazard a guess that as a whole, rural Canada is less white than the rural US because of the significant (oftentimes majority) indigenous population in many of these parts of the country.

Rural America is surely still more diverse though since there are more than 2 demographics that are present in any significant numbers.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by glowrock

Pretty much this in a nutshell.

This, along with the 24 hour news cycle, where of course "if it bleeds, it leads!", serves to keep the average suburbanite scared sh*tless of coming into the big, dangerous, horrible city, except of course when it comes to major sporting events, cultural events, and of course many of their jobs downtown!

Aaron (Glowrock)

Actually, it depends on the generation you are talking about. My parents were born and raised in cities and we lived in one until I was 5 when we moved to the suburbs. They knew what prewar cities were like and their perception was correct that our city, Washington DC, was turning to cr*p as forced integration, however righteous, was destroying the public schools, ripping out the streetcar system gutted public transit and the city no longer had the money to properly maintain the infrastructure or even keep the streets clean because the middle class was fleeing.

Washington WAS dangerous in the 60s and 70s—I once got my parents car vandalized while I was sitting in it and white people simply didn’t go to large parts of the city (though they still had their own parts). But when I was growing up and in my early adulthood, the middle class had largely deserted American cities and they were genuinely a mess and that’s how my generation mostly sees them to this day.

The urban renaissance is really a thing of the last 2, maybe 3 in some places, decades so the Millennial generation likely has a different perception. And my relatives are beginning to envy my living downtown—at least to the point they like to visit (though they still see it as something of an adventure, on par with going on safari).