Joyce-Collingwood Station review

[Sheba]

They just mailed notices to residents yesterday and the first meeting is tomorrow.
http://vancouver.ca/home-property-de...ct-review.aspx

[jlousa]

Not completely related but partially. Just goes to show the hidden density that is around the supposedly low density Vancouver skytrain stations. 29th for intsance punches quite well when one considers the huge park next to it (Slocan) and the ravine.



photo source: https://pricetags.wordpress.com/2016...rain-stations/

[officedweller]

I tend to think that jobs or other "active" uses nearby create more transit use all day than simply relying on adjacent residential populations.

(i.e. Yaletown Roundhouse may have high population nearby, but many would walk to work or generate primarily a rush hour commuting pattern)

The same goes for retail patronage - continual foot traffic is better than residents who leave in the morning and disappear all day.

[djmk]

who are the 10 people that live at the airport?

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by djmk

who are the 10 people that live at the airport?

That's a good question. I don't think a 400m radius would touch the residential area on Sea Island, so your guess is as good as mine. Perhaps there are some people living in the terminal à la The Terminal?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I tend to think that jobs or other "active" uses nearby create more transit use all day than simply relying on adjacent residential populations.

(i.e. Yaletown Roundhouse may have high population nearby, but many would walk to work or generate primarily a rush hour commuting pattern)

The same goes for retail patronage - continual foot traffic is better than residents who leave in the morning and disappear all day.

Compass Card usage stats should tell us a ton about this type of thing. I agree that there is a ton of walking by commuters around all downtown stations, however these are also the people most likely to not own a car, so they'd use transit for off-hours trips, weekends, and so on, much more than "commuter" type stations like Scott Rd or Bridgeport.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Compass Card usage stats should tell us a ton about this type of thing. I agree that there is a ton of walking by commuters around all downtown stations, however these are also the people most likely to not own a car, so they'd use transit for off-hours trips, weekends, and so on, much more than "commuter" type stations like Scott Rd or Bridgeport.

Yeah, I wasn't thinking of commuter / park and ride type stations. I was more thinking of stations in "urban" environments, but with different types or proportions of land use around them (residential, commercial, institutional, cultural).

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

That's a good question. I don't think a 400m radius would touch the residential area on Sea Island, so your guess is as good as mine. Perhaps there are some people living in the terminal à la The Terminal?

Any permanent residents at the Fairmont Airport hotel?

[Waders]

A growth spurt in Joyce-Collingwood

Not much has changed in the area since last year.
The new 'high-end building right behind Joyce station' was 'sold out'. The new Joyce station east station house should be opened in a few weeks. I wonder whether it would take another 2 decades before all the potential redevelopments identified in the review can be completed?

[Waders]

Just a latest update.
Westbank intends to submit a rezoning application for a second 32-storey residential tower with retail at the ground level at 5055 Joyce Street. This site is at the north west corner of Joyce Street and Vanness Avenue. It currently has a Tim Hortons store and CNIB.
Across the street construction is in progress for Westbank's first tower - Joyce tower(30 storey).

[SpongeG]

that CNIB building isn't that old is it?

[Waders]

After 2 years, there are some updates to projects related to the Joyce-Collingwood Station Precinct Plan.

Construction of the 30-storey 'Joyce' at 5050 Joyce Street is progressing well. From what I can see, topping out has completed.

Westbank has submitted a revised proposal for the construction of a 36(35?)-storey building at 5055 Joyce Street.

- Ground floor commercial retail units;
- 360 rental residential units including 1-floor of below-market rental housing at 20% below CMHC average rent for the neighbourhood;
- A floor space ratio (FSR) of 15.97;
- A floor area of 23,732.9 sq. m (255,457.8 sq. ft.);
- A building height of 96.1 m (315.3 ft.);
- 103 underground parking spaces, 727 bicycle spaces, and 2 Class B loading spaces.

Please note: This is a resubmission for this site. The original proposal was for a 32-storey mixed-use building with at-grade commercial and 298 strata residential units (see below). The applicant has proposed amendments to their original proposal including:

- Four additional floors changing from 32-storeys to 36-storeys;
- Changes to floor-to-floor heights thereby reducing the increase to the overall building height; and
- Change in tenure of the residential portion to 100% of the residential floor as secured rental housing, with 1-floor of rental housing at rates 20% below CMHC’s average rent for the neighbourhood;

Source: Rezoning application

Also there is a news article about the project.

Source

The area at the south-west corner of Joyce Steet/Vanness Ave. might be the next to be redeveloped.

[Feathered Friend]

Originally Posted by Waders

Westbank has submitted a revised proposal for the construction of a 36(35?)-storey building at 5055 Joyce Street.

Also there is a news article about the project.


The area at the south-west corner of Joyce Steet/Vanness Ave. might be the next to be redeveloped.

Like many things that are picked up in the media, that article was likely inspired by a recent post in this very forum. After all, it's kind of funny that so many publications have just noticed the change, considering it was posted on the project's rezoning page back in April.

Here's the information from the project's thread.

Originally Posted by jlousa

This one has been changed from 32flrs to 36 and from market condos to rental.

Ground floor commercial retail units;
360 rental residential units including 1-floor of below-market rental housing at 20% below CMHC average rent for the neighbourhood;
A floor space ratio (FSR) of 15.97;
A floor area of 23,732.9 sq. m (255,457.8 sq. ft.);
A building height of 96.1 m (315.3 ft.);
103 underground parking spaces, 727 bicycle spaces, and 2 Class B loading spaces.

Updated rezoning:
https://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applic...cest/index.htm

Council meeting is on Oct 6th, take a quick minute and send in your support.
https://vancouver.ca/your-government...c-hearing.aspx

[Marshal]

There is an issue here that City Hall (s) need to consider. Not zoning adequately for the future, like COV did along the expo line, results in construction of buildings that need to be replaced after only a small portion of their use-able life. The environmental cost is substantial and could/should impact how the city evaluates their green initiatives. They should consider a site over a period of time, because building two LEED platinum buildings, one of which gets torn down and replaced by the other, is not the best option.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Marshal

There is an issue here that City Hall (s) need to consider. Not zoning adequately for the future, like COV did along the expo line, results in construction of buildings that need to be replaced after only a small portion of their use-able life. The environmental cost is substantial and could/should impact how the city evaluates their green initiatives. They should consider a site over a period of time, because building two LEED platinum buildings, one of which gets torn down and replaced by the other, is not the best option.

I'm not clear what you're suggesting here. There was a plan for the Joyce Station area 25 years ago, and significant development on one side of the station. In 2014 Council approved a Station Precinct Plan to add additional density close to the station. The two Westbank towers are the result. The existing building on the site is not particularly large, 27 years old, and only 2FSR, with no residential component. There seem to be only two alternatives; to accept that it should be a higher density redevelopment, or not. 'Not' would mean under-utilization of the location. The existing building will have to be deconstructed and anything recyclable will be.

[SpongeG]

I was reading about this building on facebook and in the comments someone said they should not be allowed to build a rental there that it is a waste of money and should not be allowed next to a station.

[Marshal]

ChangingCity, we have no disagreement.

Across the region there are hundreds of instances of what I was referring to. I can put it this way: It is common for cities to replace buildings for many different reasons. Often there is no reasonable way to know ahead of time what will come in the future. But, there are times when planners can see well into the future. In those instances, the principles of good environmental and urban planning should inform zoning. When a new rapid transit line is built, the city should know better than to zone for a small building like the CNIB across from a station. 27 years is not long enough. It's just one small example. But it also points to the lack of forward thinking exhibited by past councils and their general zoning around the Expo line. The City has learned that lesson. But, the point of being aware of this is that the same issues apply in many areas. The zoning of the Broadway corridor is just one. The lifespan of a building is an environmental issue that should be in the mix.

[Waders]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I was reading about this building on facebook and in the comments someone said they should not be allowed to build a rental there that it is a waste of money and should not be allowed next to a station.

It is likely the developer is participating in the City of Vancouver Rental Incentive Program for this project.

'Rental 100: Secured Market Rental Housing Policy' Summary:

Objectives:
•Increase supply of 100% market rental housing (i.e. no mixed projects with both strata and rental units)
•Encourage development of market rental housing for households that cannot afford to purchase a home

Approach:
•Incentives are offered to encourage more private sector market rental housing

Structure:
Rental 100 is organized into two streams:
1. Projects that can be developed under the existing zoning (i.e. development permit process)
2. Projects that require a change in zoning

Incentives:
•DCL waiver
•Parking reductions
•Relaxation of unit size to 320 sq. ft.
•Density increases (for rezoning projects)
•Concurrent processing (for rezoning projects)

The building east side view will be blocked by the 'Joyce' building so it might not be a very hot sell as strata unit. Now the developer would retain the ownership of the land and building.

A few questions.
Is the rental vacancy% still very low? I thought some young people have moved out of rental units and moved back to live with their parents due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
Does Westbank currently own other rental buildings?

[SpongeG]

the commentator says poor people do not deserve to live in prime areas next to transit, they can live deep in the suburbs, spots like these should be reserved for the middle class. He says this is like giving poor people gold.

[casper]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

the commentator says poor people do not deserve to live in prime areas next to transit, they can live deep in the suburbs, spots like these should be reserved for the middle class. He says this is like giving poor people gold.

Many people with weird views of the world.

Pleased that one of the attributes of our British Colonial history we have evolved away from was the class structure. There is no place in Canadian society for government to reserve certain areas for middle, poor or upper class housing.