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  #1181  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 4:22 PM
iheartphilly iheartphilly is offline
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destroyed is little over the top. Certain retailers have been destroyed, but people still buy things from stores and the high performing malls in the country are still doing well. Retailers that have fallen out of favor (such as many of the mall brands that are going under) with a younger generation are also struggling. This does not mean stores like BB&B are on the verge of collapse, in fact I haven't read anything about them being included amongst the weak chains. People still like to see and instantly pick up certain goods. Has there ever been one BB&B in our area to shut down? Not that I know of.
http://www.cheatsheet.com/money-care...tml/?a=viewall

http://mashable.com/2016/11/04/amazo.../#AULhlrv.akqP

It part of the evolution and revolution of online shopping. If I was in the CEO of a large brick and mortar retailer, I would be worry about Amazon or the like. Either re-invent the business model to survive or die. There was a PBS documentary on a guy who invented mall shopping over 50 years ago and made it a successful business model. Obviously, the internet and logistic/distribution/warehousing wasn't around then and now it's perfectly and more advancements will come.
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  #1182  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 4:42 PM
Nova08 Nova08 is offline
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The stores mentioned by Londonee are all stores that people shop for common household items. Yes, some of these are struggling, but there are still plenty of them around and there are still plenty of products that aren't easy to buy online, whether it be because of the actual product or just a poor sense of color, size, etc.

With the influx of people actually living in and around CC, there needs to be more options for these types of everyday products other than buy it online or adventure out to the suburbs for an entire afternoon.

Whether it be for furniture at Crate and Barrel, fresh meat and pasta at Eataly, new baseball cleats for the kids at Dick's because they grew out of their current pair, some odds and ends to decorate an apartment/home at Xmas Tree shop/Pier One/etc., some tools for a home repair or panting at Home Depot.

When I lived in CC a few years ago (prior to Targets) I really felt like there was a lack of stores to get some common everyday items. And as a CC resident it is not just a 1 hour trip around the corner to hit 2 or 3 of these stores at a time like I could do in Cherry Hill, KOP, etc.
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  #1183  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 5:14 PM
1487 1487 is offline
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The stores mentioned by Londonee are all stores that people shop for common household items. Yes, some of these are struggling, but there are still plenty of them around and there are still plenty of products that aren't easy to buy online, whether it be because of the actual product or just a poor sense of color, size, etc.

With the influx of people actually living in and around CC, there needs to be more options for these types of everyday products other than buy it online or adventure out to the suburbs for an entire afternoon.

Whether it be for furniture at Crate and Barrel, fresh meat and pasta at Eataly, new baseball cleats for the kids at Dick's because they grew out of their current pair, some odds and ends to decorate an apartment/home at Xmas Tree shop/Pier One/etc., some tools for a home repair or panting at Home Depot.

When I lived in CC a few years ago (prior to Targets) I really felt like there was a lack of stores to get some common everyday items. And as a CC resident it is not just a 1 hour trip around the corner to hit 2 or 3 of these stores at a time like I could do in Cherry Hill, KOP, etc.

exactly. People are out of touch with the reality that the stores being mentioned are WELL represented in the burbs and are generally still doing OK. People want to be able to buy certain items and take them home- period. The large stores that have done the worst are the old school legacy department stores that have been stagnating or declining for some time. The more modern brands are still doing OK for the most part and there is no reason people in CC should have to order everything online aside from food.

Some of the stores being cited as struggling due to amazon are struggling for other reasons (i.e music stores and office supply stores) including increased competition from Walmart and technological change that made their key products obsolete. FYE didnt' fold because people are buying CDs on Amazon.
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  #1184  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 5:29 PM
1487 1487 is offline
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they are putting glass in on the base of the first building along 11th street on the SE corner. First I've seen of this on the retail base level.
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  #1185  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 6:06 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
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This. That was such a weird post. This Wawa will do very well. The stores mentioned are probably going to be killed by the internet fairly soon anyway. Why would anyone pay a 30% markup to shop at Toys R Us / Bed Bath and Beyond over Amazon?
Do you have kids?

Because it's experiential. Shopping is an afternoon out with the family. Going to Toys R Us with your kids is something fun to do. Christmas time it's festive to wonder, shop, enjoy an adult beverage on a chilly afternoon and soak up the vibe. You either get this or you don't (I understand that for many people that sounds horrible, but for a lot of other folks it's quite enjoyable). And that's beside the very practical aspect of wanting to try something on, or hold it in person, or frankly - not want to wait 2 days for shipping.

Also, unfortunately - for a lot of us in the city - Amazon isn't as practical - if you own/live in a row home you cant have Amazon delivered to your house (if you work during the day) - it has to be delivered to your office - which means you have to lug it home, which means you have to worry about the size of objects you can order, etc.
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  #1186  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 6:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
Do you have kids?

Because it's experiential. Shopping is an afternoon out with the family.
+1. Going out for a shopping excursion is a family outing - fun, bonding, and you get exercise to boot. And as mentioned, an adult beverage and snack for kids mixed in adds to it too.
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  #1187  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 6:18 PM
mcgrath618 mcgrath618 is offline
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+1. Going out for a shopping excursion is a family outing - fun, bonding, and you get exercise to boot. And as mentioned, an adult beverage and snack for kids mixed in adds to it too.
Yes but what family of four living in Center City would rather go to a place like this than, I don't know, KoP?
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  #1188  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 6:36 PM
1487 1487 is offline
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Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
Do you have kids?

Because it's experiential. Shopping is an afternoon out with the family. Going to Toys R Us with your kids is something fun to do. Christmas time it's festive to wonder, shop, enjoy an adult beverage on a chilly afternoon and soak up the vibe. You either get this or you don't (I understand that for many people that sounds horrible, but for a lot of other folks it's quite enjoyable). And that's beside the very practical aspect of wanting to try something on, or hold it in person, or frankly - not want to wait 2 days for shipping.

Also, unfortunately - for a lot of us in the city - Amazon isn't as practical - if you own/live in a row home you cant have Amazon delivered to your house (if you work during the day) - it has to be delivered to your office - which means you have to lug it home, which means you have to worry about the size of objects you can order, etc.

I don't live in CC but I can tell you that lack of access to some relatively common stores would be a downgrade from my current situation. So if I did live in or near CC I would want the types of places you are talking about. I work downtown and agree that there is dearth of places to buy "regular" stuff for the household. Without drug stores CC would struggle to provide the basics for families but drug stores have small selections and inflated pricing when it comes to things outside of food and personal goods.

Not everyone wants to do all shopping in their PJs sitting at home. Sometimes people actually do want to get out of the house to do something. Sometimes I order stuff online specifically because there is no convenient place to get it downtown..
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  #1189  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 6:52 PM
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Yes but what family of four living in Center City would rather go to a place like this than, I don't know, KoP?
Ummm.....virtually all of them. Wow, some on you guys are clueless about how Center Families live and why we live where we do. I live here specifically so I don’t have to do that. Why would I get in my car and drive on the Schuylkill when I can stroll through my beautiful neighborhood?






If I had my way, I would never drive unless I was going on a road trip or down the shore.
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  #1190  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 7:13 PM
iheartphilly iheartphilly is offline
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We shouldn't be talking about extremes or personal preferences, but there's no doubt online shopping has effected brick and mortar retail. Technology has no doubt changed consumer habits. Amazon has those kiosks in stores that you can pick up your stuff if you don't or can't have it deliver to your home. They are also now getting into furniture sales.
I personally think both can exist, but think physical retailing has already changed.
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  #1191  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 7:44 PM
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Brick and mortar will never die precisely for the reasons people here have said. The experience and desire to see and touch things. Yes, online shopping has hurt and will hurt it. But for the better companies, it will just decrease the number of brick and mortar stores and impact where they are located. It won't kill them (some stores it could push to bankruptcy, but not most). I would say cities and the few upscale malls like KOP are the right places for brick and mortar stores.
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  #1192  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 7:47 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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Ummm.....virtually all of them. Wow, some on you guys are clueless about how Center Families live and why we live where we do. I live here specifically so I don’t have to do that. Why would I get in my car and drive on the Schuylkill when I can stroll through my beautiful neighborhood?






If I had my way, I would never drive unless I was going on a road trip or down the shore.
Agree. And if Philly could attract and support a high end department store or two, that would really obviate the need to head out to KOP from time to time. Hopefully, Nordstrom, Bloomingdales and the like will feel like we've hit the necessary demographic characteristics to sustain a full line store in the not too distant future.
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  #1193  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 7:50 PM
Justin7 Justin7 is offline
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Ummm.....virtually all of them. Wow, some on you guys are clueless about how Center Families live and why we live where we do. I live here specifically so I don’t have to do that. Why would I get in my car and drive on the Schuylkill when I can stroll through my beautiful neighborhood?




If I had my way, I would never drive unless I was going on a road trip or down the shore.
OK, now show me a picture like that with a Bed Bath and Beyond and a Toys R Us in it.

I think there has been a misunderstanding. I do have (a) kid and I totally appreciate the experience of shopping and grabbing a bite and a drink. I just don't see how that squares with the the suburban sprawl big box stores we're discussing.
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  #1194  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 8:17 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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OK, now show me a picture like that with a Bed Bath and Beyond and a Toys R Us in it.

I think there has been a misunderstanding. I do have (a) kid and I totally appreciate the experience of shopping and grabbing a bite and a drink. I just don't see how that squares with the the suburban sprawl big box stores we're discussing.
I'm not sure what you're driving at. Personally, if those types of stores existed in the city, I'd go to them here when needing the products they sell rather than driving out to the burbs. I think they should exist in the city, but they are not the top priority when trying to create a live, work, play neighborhood. Particularly for Millenials. Which is what they are trying to do with this project. And, to a lesser degree, the Gallery.
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  #1195  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 8:19 PM
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OK, now show me a picture like that with a Bed Bath and Beyond and a Toys R Us in it.
.




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  #1196  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 8:26 PM
1487 1487 is offline
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OK, now show me a picture like that with a Bed Bath and Beyond and a Toys R Us in it.

I think there has been a misunderstanding. I do have (a) kid and I totally appreciate the experience of shopping and grabbing a bite and a drink. I just don't see how that squares with the the suburban sprawl big box stores we're discussing.
many store brands (outside of target) have urban formats- Philly just doesn't have many of them. And just because items are sold in "big box" stores doesn't mean regular people don't want access to the goods they sell. There is a reason people in CC heavily patronized the Target and Ikea in south Philly. These chain home goods stores are all over the place in less urbanized neighborhoods and in inner ring suburbs- they are not all placed in "lifestyle centers" off 422 somewhere. I used to go to a BB&B in Wynnewood which was 2min outside the city border.
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  #1197  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 8:30 PM
Justin7 Justin7 is offline
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Not only did you use a picture from Times Square (I mean, come on...) but you used one of a store that no longer exists. We're definitely not going to see eye to eye on this so let's just go with "to each his own."
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  #1198  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 8:42 PM
allovertown allovertown is offline
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OK, now show me a picture like that with a Bed Bath and Beyond and a Toys R Us in it.

I think there has been a misunderstanding. I do have (a) kid and I totally appreciate the experience of shopping and grabbing a bite and a drink. I just don't see how that squares with the the suburban sprawl big box stores we're discussing.
What do you mean? It looks just like that picture only the stores would say Bed, Bath and Beyond and Toys R Us. Have you been to NYC, San Francisco, etc? Just because a brand can normally be found in a suburban big box store format, doesn't mean they won't pack into a smaller urban scaled environment if the bottom line is worth it.

And I think you're totally off about what online retailing is doing to brick and mortar retailing. Online retailing means there will be fewer and fewer brick and mortar locations for brands, but it's not like they'll entirely disappear. People are buying online with greater frequency but there will always be need to go and get something in person or to get something immediately. In fact many brands that started off as online only such as Bonobos and Warby Parker now have brick and mortar locations for just that reason.

And the thing is, if a brand is going to reduce the number of brick and mortar stores they have by 50% or even 75%, the stores that are left will not be big box stores in the middle of nowhere. They'll be the urban concept stores and the stores located in major mall like KOP. As much as brands have been closing brick and mortar stores as of late, they're certainly not closing them in thriving downtown locations or major malls. Absolutely no reason why stores like the ones Londonee mentioned shouldn't have brick and mortar locations in CC.
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  #1199  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 9:18 PM
City Wide City Wide is online now
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I agree I like to lay my hands on the product I am interested in as well...





Then I go home and order it on Amazon.
Maybe for some junk I'll do that, but in general that sounds like much too much work, who has the time to do both. I also find if I go to a store, like yesterday I needed a printer, and I find someone who is knowledgeable and helpful, I don't feel the need to make sure I shop around to find the best price. The difference on a $200 printer might be what, $15? I'd rather support a real place with real people doing real jobs. (unfortunately I couldn't find anyone who knew their own name, never mind actually helping me) Is there a market for brick and mortar stores that give real service, I hope so.
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  #1200  
Old Posted May 17, 2017, 9:22 PM
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Maybe for some junk I'll do that, but in general that sounds like much too much work, who has the time to do both. I also find if I go to a store, like yesterday I needed a printer, and I find someone who is knowledgeable and helpful, I don't feel the need to make sure I shop around to find the best price. The difference on a $200 printer might be what, $15? I'd rather support a real place with real people doing real jobs. (unfortunately I couldn't find anyone who knew their own name, never mind actually helping me) Is there a market for brick and mortar stores that give real service, I hope so.
IMO this is probably where the retail sector is heading -- more a service-oriented showroom-centric model. Kind of like the Apple stores and why all of the major carriers are aping the Apple Store model nowadays.
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