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  #501  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 2:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Hamilton View Post
Newport 30 years ago was railyards with nobody living there...so I don't know how you say minorities were pushed out there. Hoboken became so gentrified partly because it restricts development a lot more than Jersey City does. In most of Hoboken you can't even build a 5 story building...and they make you build a ton of parking. As a result, fewer new apartments went on the market there, and people had to compete for the smaller pool of apartments. So landlords raised prices and it pushed out the poor and minorities. Supply and demand.
Exactly. If you want an area to gentrify, you limit the supply of new construction and the density. The politicians know this. Racist NIMBYs know this too. This is why higher density developments can receive such a backlash in communities throughout the country.

By aggressively adding new supply it's keeping rents affordable. Thankfully Jersey City planning knows this well. I have no words for the fools advocating to restrict development in the belief it would somehow stop rents from rising. That's literally the worst thing that can be done if the goal is to keep the community affordable and deter displacement of long-term residents.
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  #502  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 3:13 AM
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JerseyResident4Life, for your edification...

The issue of public education quality in Jersey City is part of a much larger picture that has been played out on the Statewide for close to 40 years. Pointing the finger at recent abatements in Journal Square is terribly misguided without first understanding the history of why JC public schools, and most urban districts in New Jersey, are so shitty to begin with. Hint: It's State's policy that has been found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court but haven't really been rectified to this date.

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THE HISTORY OF ABBOTT V. BURKE

In 1981, the Education Law Center filed a complaint in Superior Court on behalf of 20 children attending public schools in the cities of Camden, East Orange, Irvington, and Jersey City. The lawsuit challenged New Jersey’s system of financing public education under the Public School Education Act of 1975 (Chapter 212).

This was the first salvo in the historic case, Abbott v. Burke, which is widely recognized as the most important education litigation for poor and minority schoolchildren since Brown v. Board of Education.

Beginning in 1981, ELC argued that the State's method of funding education was unconstitutional because it caused significant expenditure disparities between poor urban and wealthy suburban school districts, and that poorer urban districts were unable to adequately meet the educational needs of their students.

The case eventually made its way to the NJ Supreme Court, which, in 1985, issued the first Abbott decision (Abbott I) transferring the case to an administrative law judge for an initial hearing.

The Remedial Directives
In 1990, in Abbott II, the NJ Supreme Court upheld the administrative law judge’s ruling, finding the State’s school funding law unconstitutional as applied to children in 28 “poorer urban” school districts. That number was later expanded to 31. View the Abbott Districts

The Court’s ruling directed the Legislature to amend or enact a new law to “assure” funding for the urban districts: 1) at the foundation level “substantially equivalent” to that in the successful suburban districts; and 2) “adequate” to provide for the supplemental programs necessary to address the extreme disadvantages of urban schoolchildren. The Court ordered this new funding mechanism be in place for the following school year, 1991-92.

In response to the Abbott II decision, the Legislature approved the Quality Education Act (QEA), which modestly increased foundation aid levels for the Abbott districts, but failed to provide parity funding.

In 1992, the Abbott plaintiffs went back to the NJ Supreme Court, asking for a decision on whether the new funding law met the specific terms of its 1990 decree. The Court remanded the motion to a trial judge with instructions to develop a full factual record. Following an extensive trial, the remand judge found that the QEA failed to meet the Court’s 1990 ruling and recommended the law be declared unconstitutional as applied to the urban districts.

In 1994, the Supreme Court affirmed the findings and recommendation of the remand judge. The Court then entered its second remedial order, Abbott III, directing the Legislature to adopt another funding law by September 1996 that would assure “substantial equivalence” in per pupil foundation funding with suburban districts and provide the necessary supplemental programs.

In December 1996, the Legislature enacted its second funding law – the Comprehensive Education Improvement and Financing Act or “CEIFA” – in response to the Court’s 1994 decision. In January 1997, the Abbott plaintiffs asked the Court to declare CEIFA unconstitutional for failing to achieve compliance with the Court’s prior orders. The Court acted quickly on the motion and in Abbott IV found CIEFA unconstitutional as applied to the urban districts.

The Court also took more decisive action. First, the justices ordered parity in foundation funding for the 1997-98 school year, resulting in an immediate state aid increase of $246 million. Second, they ordered that parity be continued in future years until the Legislature, through new or amendatory legislation, could “convincingly demonstrate” that resources adequate for urban schoolchildren to meet established academic standards could be provided at a level lower than the amounts expended in the successful suburban districts.

Finally, the Court ordered that a second remand trial be conducted by a designated judge, this time for the purpose of developing a full evidentiary record of the need both for supplemental programs (including early education) for urban schoolchildren and for capital facilities improvements in the urban districts. The State Education Commissioner was directed to prepare and present a study of these needs, including recommendations for funding levels and a plan for program implementation.

On review of the trial court’s decision, the Supreme Court in Abbott V accepted many of the supplemental programs and reforms, and a plan to fund capital facilities improvements, recommended by the remand judge. The Court also modified several recommendations and established a unique process whereby urban districts were afforded the right to seek additional funding for supplemental programs and capital improvements if they could demonstrate the need. Districts were also afforded the right to seek administrative and judicial review of decisions by the State Education Commissioner denying requests for supplemental funds.

Taken together, the 1997 Abbott IV and 1998 Abbott V rulings directed implementation of a comprehensive set of remedial measures, including high quality early education, supplemental programs and reforms, and school facilities improvements, to ensure an adequate and equal education for low-income schoolchildren.

The Abbott remedies were strikingly detailed and comprehensive. The mandates also broke new ground in school finance and education policy in the United States. No other state had equalized – or assured “parity” – in the education resources provided to children in its lowest-wealth communities at the level spent in more affluent ones. New Jersey was the first state to mandate early education, starting at age 3, for children “at risk” of entering kindergarten or primary school cognitively and socially behind their more advantaged peers. The Court’s “needs-based” approach to providing supplementary programs and reforms was an unprecedented effort to target funds to initiatives designed to improve educational outcomes of low-income schoolchildren. Finally, New Jersey undertook the most extensive construction program in the United States designed to ameliorate the severely deficient condition and quality of school buildings in low-wealth neighborhoods.

Enforcing and Sustaining Implementation of the Remedy
The Court’s hopes for a sustained, good faith effort to implement the remedial measures ordered in Abbott IV and V were quickly dashed. Over the next ten years, both parties sought judicial intervention to resolve numerous implementation delays, disputes and controversies.
http://www.edlawcenter.org/cases/abb...t-history.html
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  #503  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 12:27 PM
Hamilton Hamilton is offline
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Right, from what I understand, Jersey City is an Abbott district, which means the state pays for most of the schools anyway. So it's the suburbanites who really hate the tax abatements because that means that the state has to pay a bigger share of our schools. You can see how mad some of the suburbanites get about Jersey City being an Abbott district and about the tax abatements in the NJ.com comments section. Anyway we might be shooting ourselves in the foot by putting abatement money that could go to the city, into the schools instead. But I'm not an expert on that.

Anyway, I don't know if maybe we want to split this thread into a political discussion thread and a projects/construction thread? It's largely my fault for bringing politics into here, but politics and development kind of came together when the city started discussing zoning changes as part of a possible Fulop-Boggiano deal.
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  #504  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 6:25 PM
JCResident_Now&4Ever JCResident_Now&4Ever is offline
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I should be actually thanking both of you CIA and Hamilton - Because of my discovery of your opinions - I've been going door to door in the Redevelopment Zone (not the between Tonelle and West Side Folks) and letting the poor racist and old people know what are the opinions held by those who promote growth in the community.... it isn't growth ... it's $$$ that they want..... it's ok .. .thanks guys... keep up the good work...
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  #505  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 6:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JCResident_Now&4Ever View Post
I should be actually thanking both of you CIA and Hamilton - Because of my discovery of your opinions - I've been going door to door in the Redevelopment Zone (not the between Tonelle and West Side Folks) and letting the poor racist and old people know what are the opinions held by those who promote growth in the community.... it isn't growth ... it's $$$ that they want..... it's ok .. .thanks guys... keep up the good work...

Have fun with that.

You've got to be a troll. If not, I'm going to be at the next Journal Square Neighborhood Association meeting. Please come talk to me.
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  #506  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 6:41 PM
JCResident_Now&4Ever JCResident_Now&4Ever is offline
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On a Separate topic... what do you Jarheads think of the recent rise of investors who illegally turn 2 family homes into 8-10 br hostels for incoming College Students within the Redevelopment Zone? Charging $300 Rent for 7 people living on one floor?

One of the biggest reasons we (home owners) are so against the 1br/Studio idea is NOT because we don't want the project - its because real homeowners see that style of living currently and the abuse by current investors in the area.... this actually brings the area further down with trash issues and parking issues for the already influx of population and illegal conversions......

So to understand the reasons why ... at these meetings Community folks are against many of the ideas... it is because we are under the impression that the same will happen .... it's gotten so bad that investors are putting cameras not to look out for crime but to watch how many tenants are abusing the apartment.

You both need to understand the reason why community folks are sometimes against the idea proposed. Parking is an issue because when you illegally turn apartments into hostels .... you can afford a car ... and JCPA... give out Zone 2 stickers like its candy to anyone.... so some home owners are against building without parking.
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  #507  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 6:44 PM
JCResident_Now&4Ever JCResident_Now&4Ever is offline
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Its funny - I'm part of the association also and I paid my dues .... so i'll make sure I talk to you.
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  #508  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 7:17 PM
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You keep saying the community is against these proposals. That's not true. Most are supporting the redevelopment. The most recent meeting that the board voted in favor of some of the new developments in the pipeline.

As for the illegal conversions, that's a code enforcement issue the city should rectify. We need high quality housing, and turning a single family home into a flop house isn't cutting it.

Why no rebuttal on the schools. I cite a writeup detailing the long history of the disparity in the quality of urban school districts in the state because of state funding and poof, not a word. Lol.
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  #509  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 7:22 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by JCResident_Now&4Ever View Post
I should be actually thanking both of you CIA and Hamilton - Because of my discovery of your opinions - I've been going door to door in the Redevelopment Zone (not the between Tonelle and West Side Folks) and letting the poor racist and old people know what are the opinions held by those who promote growth in the community.... it isn't growth ... it's $$$ that they want..... it's ok .. .thanks guys... keep up the good work...
You better include me too in your campaign of demonization, as well as anyone else who supports affordable housing, transit improvements and healthier, more vital communities.

And it isn't going to work. JC residents and leadership are generally too smart to fall for your NIMBY nonsense.
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  #510  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 7:23 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by JCResident_Now&4Ever View Post
On a Separate topic... what do you Jarheads think of the recent rise of investors who illegally turn 2 family homes into 8-10 br hostels for incoming College Students within the Redevelopment Zone? Charging $300 Rent for 7 people living on one floor?
Ah, the irony. Someone never took an Econ 101 class.

You want to stop development, yet complain about existing housing being subdivided. I bet you don't even see the contradiction, do you?
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  #511  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 7:26 PM
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As for parking, I would actually be in favor, as a condition of any new development that the city will not be granting any more zone parking strickers to residents of the new buildinds. Therefore parking must be provided onsite or privately in one of the many nearby lots. (The parking garage at the PATH station isn't bad).

It should be right in the lease terms so potential new residents know what they're buying into.
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  #512  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 8:05 PM
JCResident_Now&4Ever JCResident_Now&4Ever is offline
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Your argument is bit of a Red Herring. Citing items from the 90's in 2017 does not make it right ...we can agree to disagree.
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  #513  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 8:18 PM
JCResident_Now&4Ever JCResident_Now&4Ever is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Ah, the irony. Someone never took an Econ 101 class.

You want to stop development, yet complain about existing housing being subdivided. I bet you don't even see the contradiction, do you?
How is that a contradiction? Who wants to stop development? Your a little late to the party Crawford? I'm more angry about the fact that Hamilton called residents racists and antiquated for bringing any opposition to the association which I feel like is a bad move.

Let me let all three of you know something... keep up the good work ... we'd like to see JSQ get better.... we don't disagree with development... but why not address the current issues and understand the current concerns rather than attack anyone who does not believe in your ideas...

As it relates to schools.... it needs work... we can all agree on that... along with infrastructure in the area.... (Roads, Sewer lines, water lines, etc). We can all learn from Hoboken and other areas in Downtown.... Building a tall building looks cute and all but when the shit hits the fan... the whole community suffers.... water main brakes, ruptured pipes ...etc... the tax payers in the area will have to flip the bill .... if you can't understand my point then it's not worth the time arguing.... we can agree to disagree.

If you want compromise - you must reach out and understand everyone's opinion and why they feel that way. Can't be one sided...
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  #514  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 8:37 PM
JCResident_Now&4Ever JCResident_Now&4Ever is offline
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Originally Posted by CIA View Post
As for parking, I would actually be in favor, as a condition of any new development that the city will not be granting any more zone parking strickers to residents of the new buildinds. Therefore parking must be provided onsite or privately in one of the many nearby lots. (The parking garage at the PATH station isn't bad).

It should be right in the lease terms so potential new residents know what they're buying into.
That's a great idea CIA...and I agree the Path Station garage is not bad at all.... and it's SUPER CHEAP. Even though Hoboken has a parking problem for residents ... they don't really complain because there are parking facilities and residential parking restrictions.

See... we can co exist fellas... we just have to understand everyone's points and not dismiss them as being NIMBY or racist.
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  #515  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 9:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JCResident_Now&4Ever View Post
Your argument is bit of a Red Herring. Citing items from the 90's in 2017 does not make it right ...we can agree to disagree.
You're dismissing the history of the problem. Jersey City receives in excess of a $100 million annually in state school aid from the state because of the important court cases that happened in the 80s and 90s. That's why I can't take you serious when you talk about the condition of the schools today and point to the tax abatements for yet to be built buildings in Journal Square.

Not that you probably care, but Jersey City has seen a number of credit ratings increase over the past four years and the municipal portion of the property tax bill has remained flat while taxes have soared all around us. The new developments are paying dividends to the city.
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  #516  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 9:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JCResident_Now&4Ever View Post
That's a great idea CIA...and I agree the Path Station garage is not bad at all.... and it's SUPER CHEAP. Even though Hoboken has a parking problem for residents ... they don't really complain because there are parking facilities and residential parking restrictions.

See... we can co exist fellas... we just have to understand everyone's points and not dismiss them as being NIMBY or racist.
I feel like we have a break though fellas. Lol. When you knock on my door to alert me about my opinions online, let's have a chat. Off topics, but what's your favorite restaurant in the area?
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  #517  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 9:42 PM
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Last edited by C.; Apr 11, 2017 at 9:54 PM.
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  #518  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 9:50 PM
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Take a look at the large cities in New Jersey that are not growing. Now ask yourself if they are better off than Jersey City. Growth is a good thing for the city, which is why our city leaders are strongly encouraging it.
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  #519  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 2:07 PM
JCResident_Now&4Ever JCResident_Now&4Ever is offline
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Originally Posted by CIA View Post
You're dismissing the history of the problem. Jersey City receives in excess of a $100 million annually in state school aid from the state because of the important court cases that happened in the 80s and 90s. That's why I can't take you serious when you talk about the condition of the schools today and point to the tax abatements for yet to be built buildings in Journal Square.

Not that you probably care, but Jersey City has seen a number of credit ratings increase over the past four years and the municipal portion of the property tax bill has remained flat while taxes have soared all around us. The new developments are paying dividends to the city.
Two things - Schools are one of the many issues with a tax abatement. I send my children to private school also but the biggest concern is there is a tax assessment going on in JC as we speak. The JSQ area is booming with apartments. Municipal services will need to be increased (police, fire fighters equipped to deal with high rise buildings, already over crowded schools (for existing non-relevant to luxury condos), and not to mention old pipe systems for sewers, water mains and gas lines. Not to mention the sometimes monthly black outs in JSQ (close to train tracks). My issue is not just schools when it comes to tax abatement it's giving residents 30 year tax abatement vs. 5 year tax abatement.

I know this is not the forum to talk about tax abatement but over time it will put a strain on residents who are paying taxes. And there has to be change in other areas for this to work - the 3 1/2 sales tax in the area ... needs to increase .... but we can go on and on about this issue but again... it's not just schools... it's more
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  #520  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 2:11 PM
JCResident_Now&4Ever JCResident_Now&4Ever is offline
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Originally Posted by CIA View Post
Take a look at the large cities in New Jersey that are not growing. Now ask yourself if they are better off than Jersey City. Growth is a good thing for the city, which is why our city leaders are strongly encouraging it.
Again - nobody is debating that. Journal Square is called Urinal Square in the area so residents welcome new business and construction. But again... address the current problems in the area in order for the progression of the entire area not just the construction sites.

On another note - The HARWOOD PROJECT - just saw 2 men this morning surveying the entire area so it looks that will get started soon ahead of 1JS.
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