174 Widening and Extension | Proposed

[DubberDom]

Originally Posted by Dado

Well that's fair enough. There's not enough Ottawa-origin traffic (i.e. from Cumberland) on that segment to justify using Ottawa tax dollars to widen it, and, furthermore, a widening of that section will probably precipitate a widening of the 174 through Orleans.

Ottawa's incentive is to pacify old Hwy 17 east of Trim down to a rural arterial so as to slow traffic to make it safer for its residents along the road. Ottawa has absolutely no incentive to make it easier for Rockland residents to drive in to Ottawa.

The first part of your statement is correct. As for the second statement about speeds, I am a resident of Cumberland Village and we have been pushing to reduce the speeds through Cumberland area. The city completed a speed study and low-and-behold, they say that there is no need to reduce the speed limit...

The proposal from the community association was to reduce the 174 from 90 to 80km/hr - there are no other city roads within the City's limit, either provincial or municipal with a 90km/hr speed (Hwy 7, Hwy 16, Hwy 31 as examples) and to reduce the speed within the village area to 60km/hr. This was rejected... even though the city of Rockland recently reduced the speed along the same road to 60km/hr!!!

We are all frustrated with the 174 issue, it is obvious that the city wants out of that road, notice the pot holes near Montreal Rd & Jeanne D'Arc?

[lrt's friend]

So, will we have the extra lanes for buses or not when we shut down the Eastern Transitway?

[Richard Eade]

As it stands now, there will only be two lanes of the OR174 continuing past St. Laurent. If the City does extend the current widening plan, there will still be a bottle-neck at the Cyrville Bridge.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

As it stands now, there will only be two lanes of the OR174 continuing past St. Laurent. If the City does extend the current widening plan, there will still be a bottle-neck at the Cyrville Bridge.

So the answer is NO. Sounds like a great plan for Transitway conversion when the vast majority of buses will be travelling through that area.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

So the answer is NO. Sounds like a great plan for Transitway conversion when the vast majority of buses will be travelling through that area.

I think the west-bound buses will run along the new extension of the St. Laurent off ramp, that way they are off the OR174 sooner. My best guess would look like this:



The blue lines are for west-bound and the fuchsia ones are for east-bound. There are two options for the blue; under St. Laurent before the station or over (dashed line) before the station. I'm not sure of the grade difference between the bus loop and the off ramp. Either way, the west-bound buses cross over St. Laurent at least once. There would be two surface crossings of St. Laurent going east.

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I think the west-bound buses will run along the new extension of the St. Laurent off ramp, that way they are off the OR174 sooner. My best guess would look like this:



The blue lines are for west-bound and the fuchsia ones are for east-bound. There are two options for the blue; under St. Laurent before the station or over (dashed line) before the station. I'm not sure of the grade difference between the bus loop and the off ramp. Either way, the west-bound buses cross over St. Laurent at least once. There would be two surface crossings of St. Laurent going east.

The grade difference is far too big. I would have to think a bit about other ways of doing things, but I suspect something non-queensway might be needed.

[Richard Eade]

I assume you are referring to the west-bound routing from the St. Laurent exit down to the underpass of St. Laurent as being too steep. The east-bound routing requires no changes to the current configuration.

OK, fair enough. How about the dashed blue route from the off ramp, dropping to the intersection with St. Laurent? The bus would pass across the surface of St. Laurent and into the Transitway Station. Some minor concrete work would be required to allow that to happen. Leaving the station would be on a new ramp to the west, as shown by the dashed blue line.

In order to implement this, I imagine sheet piles being driven on both sides of the shopping centre overpass' east ramp forming steep walls and then the two walls tied together under the roadway. The piles can be driven off peak hours and the ties could be run using micro-boring. There would be minimum disruption to people using the bridge to the shopping centre. Once the wall was in place, a new bus ramp from the off ramp to St. Laurent could be added.

I am suggesting this method because it is a temporary ramp that is needed so there is no point in building it to permanent standards. When the bus ramp is no longer needed, the grading can be restored, leaving the piles in place.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by DubberDom

The first part of your statement is correct. As for the second statement about speeds, I am a resident of Cumberland Village and we have been pushing to reduce the speeds through Cumberland area. The city completed a speed study and low-and-behold, they say that there is no need to reduce the speed limit...

The proposal from the community association was to reduce the 174 from 90 to 80km/hr - there are no other city roads within the City's limit, either provincial or municipal with a 90km/hr speed (Hwy 7, Hwy 16, Hwy 31 as examples) and to reduce the speed within the village area to 60km/hr. This was rejected... even though the city of Rockland recently reduced the speed along the same road to 60km/hr!!!

We are all frustrated with the 174 issue, it is obvious that the city wants out of that road, notice the pot holes near Montreal Rd & Jeanne D'Arc?

It remains a rural arterial through the village though with only rural residential frontage along 174. Until further development takes place, an 80 km/h speed limit seems reasonable. Rockland has a more suburban design, but even there 60 km/h is probably too low (70 would be best IMO).

The 90 km/h speed on the rural sections is an oddity that dates back to when it was Highway 17 - 17 west of Ottawa through what is now the city (until it was replaced by Highway 417) was also 90 km/h. The amount of residential development on the highway could warrant a reduction to 80 km/h though, but some counties in southern Ontario recently increased many county-maintained roads from 80 to 90 km/h.

[DubberDom]

You have 9 separate intersections (only Cameron Street is signaled) along a 2.8 km stretch of very busy 2-lane road. I count approximately 300 residences that must access the 174 using one of these unsignaled intersection. You also have 18 residences and 1 church directly on that stretch of 174. Most traffic exceed 90km/hr, there is no lighting and the condition of the roadway is not up to safety standards.

[DubberDom]

The idea of a bypass has been floated around since the 174 will not have the capacity to carry population growth for the next 20 years east of Trim. Widening may be an option but when the urban boundary is expanded east of Frank Kenny, this will put added pressure on congestion and need for lower speeds and added intersection requirements, not to mention future growth in Clarence-Rockland.

The province has to take over responsibility for this problem, not the city. 174 needs at least 3 lanes currently and likely 4 lanes out of Orleans to 417, and 2 lane grade separated highway from Trim to beyond Rockland. It would be nearly impossible to do this using the current alignment to achieve this. Hence the idea of a new alignment beyond Orleans more towards the south and connect Rockland and Clarence Creek by the south.

[RTWAP]

Originally Posted by Dado

But there's more to it than that. It's not like the split is preventing people from driving east to Orleans in the morning. A lot of Kanata's employment is of people living in Kanata as well. Barrhaven is at least as devoid of employment as Orleans, and doesn't even have a decent-sized shopping centre, either. It just seems to me that Kanata managed to capture the imagination of the business community in a way that none of the other suburbs have managed to.

A real opportunity was missed when Nortel expanded their campus in the late 90's. If they had moved to land just west of Barrhaven then it would have been a real boon for the city.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by DubberDom

The idea of a bypass has been floated around since the 174 will not have the capacity to carry population growth for the next 20 years east of Trim. Widening may be an option but when the urban boundary is expanded east of Frank Kenny, this will put added pressure on congestion and need for lower speeds and added intersection requirements, not to mention future growth in Clarence-Rockland.

The province has to take over responsibility for this problem, not the city. 174 needs at least 3 lanes currently and likely 4 lanes out of Orleans to 417, and 2 lane grade separated highway from Trim to beyond Rockland. It would be nearly impossible to do this using the current alignment to achieve this. Hence the idea of a new alignment beyond Orleans more towards the south and connect Rockland and Clarence Creek by the south.

Residential development that extends well to the south precludes a new alignment. In addition, the presence of Highway 417 to the south for long-distance traffic and low commercial vehicle count makes a rural 4/5-lane arterial workable. Think of Highway 10 from Brampton to Orangeville for a model that I recommend. If congestion or safety becomes too much, then it could slowly be converted to a freeway or a RIRO-expressway on the current alignment.

An interchange at Trim Road should certainly be built though (with a transition from the 4-lane freeway to the 4-lane arterial there), and 6 lanes are probably warranted as far as Place d'Orleans or Tenth Line Road. I don't think there is enough ROW to widen beyond 6 lanes though.

[DubberDom]

The alignment can be done through farmers fields. I saw the alignment that was proposed once, I just took a google map and approximated the alignment route, but I can't upload the file from my office PC Network since the ability is restricted.

Essentially, the route would go from Trim/174 and route up through Frank Kenny to align with Innes and follow that line to the south of Rockland.

The alignment of a 4-lane highway along a river does not meet current environmental and safety guidelines. Furthermore, even if the route is "twinned", there will be no way to grade-separate the road in the future.

[DubberDom]

Here is the alignment they should consider (rough estimation)



Even if they twin the existing 174, it will run out of capacity after 10 years with urban expansion beyond 2020 and the anticipated doubling of Rockland's population. There is no way to convert the existing alignment to a grade separated road, all you will get in 10-20 years is a 60km/hr route with traffic lights and some residential and commercial all the way to Cumberland and into Rockland (as it already is along 17 in Rockland). Also, access to Rockland village would be best served by a south entrance, the current Laurier (Main) street is over capacity at Hwy 17.

We need to address the issue before the next review of urban expansion.

By redirecting traffic to a new southern route, that would enable the city to convert the 174 to Cumberland into a nice riverside parkway and improve the quality of life for Cumberland residents

[DubberDom]

Routes 174/17 expansion

After years of delays, plans for the $104 million expansion of routes 174/17 are being stepped up with Ottawa’s transportation committee poised to clear the way for an environmental assessment, a major step toward the completion of the long-overdue project.


Cumberland ward councillor Stephen Blais will table a motion at a transportation committee meeting April 6, urging city officials to use $5 million in provincial funding to move ahead with the environmental assessment. He is confident to get full support from his fellow committee members.

Blais added the motion will be tabled on condition that the provincial government commits to providing funding for the expansion of Hwy 417 between Nicholas exit and the split as well as completing the project by 2015.

Currently, only the portion between the split and Cumberland is part of the city transportation plan.

“The environmental assessment will be included in the updated transportation plan, which is due out in 2013,” said Blais.

Regardless of the environmental assessment findings, the initial plan calls for the enlargement of Regional Road 174 to four lanes between Canaan and Trim roads and to six lanes between Trim Rd. and the split.

In addition, the expansion of Route 174 between the split and Jeanne d’Arc Blvd. should wrap up between 2016 and 2022.

Safer route

The Cumberland councillor feels the 174 expansion is necessary to make the busy thoroughfare safer for the thousands of motorists using it.

“If you look at the Cumberland side (of Route 174), which has one lane in each direction, 260 accidents occurred in the last five or six years,” said Blais. “Six people were killed. And the highway was shut down a dozen times because of these accidents. Every time they close the highway, the traffic is diverted to the village of Cumberland. It’s a very dangerous route.”

As for the expansion of the stretch between Trim Rd. and the split, the elected official says the project would ease traffic congestion at rush hour.

“More importantly, it’s not good for families,” he continued. “Because if you spend 10 minutes in your car, it’s 10 minutes that you don’t spend with your kids or your wife.”

Blais went on to say that even if 60 percent of east enders used public transit, traffic would still be reduced to a crawl. Motorists generally drive at 40 km/h at rush hour on the Queensway between Trim Rd. and the split.

“It’s ridiculous,” added Blais, saying the expansion project will not have a negative impact on the use of public transit. “We will improve public transit. A less expensive, more comfortable way to get downtown faster.”[quote]

[DubberDom]

Although I believe that the expansion of the 174 between Trim and 417 is warranted, the city should opposed any expansion of the 174 east of Trim. The sole purpose of this expansion will be to service growth in Rockland and other communities east of Ottawa, while bringing no benefit to the city of Ottawa except more traffic, at the expense of further destroying the watershed along the river where the highway will expand.

Councillor Blais has his head in a hole on this issue, makes me question who he represents...resident of Ottawa or residents of Rockland?

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by DubberDom

The sole purpose of this expansion will be to service growth in Rockland and other communities east of Ottawa, while bringing no benefit to the city of Ottawa except more traffic, at the expense of further destroying the watershed along the river where the highway will expand.

Couldn't agree with you more....this will make it easier to justify more sprawl in Rockland for people who have a job in Ottawa but don't want to pay Ottawa prices for housing etc, but want to spend countless hours commuting to their jobs. In many respects the same goes for the Highway 7 twinning to Carleton Place.

[Dado]

Interesting...

Originally Posted by DubberDom

Currently, only the portion between the split and Cumberland is part of the city transportation plan.

“The environmental assessment will be included in the updated transportation plan, which is due out in 2013,” said Blais.

Oh really? So an environmental assessment can precede a change to the Transportation Master Plan, or even be the source of such a change. Funny, because when it comes to transit, the TMP seems to need to be changed first. That was, after all, the primary excuse used during the N-S LRT debacle against extending it to Hurdman.

I guess when it comes to roads, it's "whatever", but when it comes to transit, proceduralism applies.

Regardless of the environmental assessment findings, the initial plan calls for the enlargement of Regional Road 174 to four lanes between Canaan and Trim roads and to six lanes between Trim Rd. and the split.

Wait a moment, "regardless of the environmental assessment findings"? Just what is the point of an environmental assessment then? Oh, right, in the unlikely event that the first one doesn't give you want you want, do another.

“More importantly, it’s not good for families,” he continued. “Because if you spend 10 minutes in your car, it’s 10 minutes that you don’t spend with your kids or your wife.”

I don't know, with boneheaded statements like that, it wouldn't surprise me if his wife would welcome the additional 10 minutes he spends in his car.

[OttSenators]

Here is a new article about the expansion.

http://www.orleansstar.ca/News/Local...wa-City-Hall/1

[ThePlanner]

"More importantly, it’s not good for families,” he continued. “Because if you spend 10 minutes in your car, it’s 10 minutes that you don’t spend with your kids or your wife."

Good to know Steven Blais still assumes only men go off to work.

Long story short; this poor excuse for a man was elected specifically to widen the 174 all the way to Rockland. If you don't believe me, check his campaign website. I'm fairly certain this was his #1 priority. Despicable, isn't it?