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  #3381  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 8:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman View Post
What is the deal with everybody worrying about letting light into the ball room/meeting rooms/convention room? Every time i go into a room to do something in a ball room or other room the first thing we are asked and do is block as much light as possible from getting into the room.. The design of this new centre will add thousands of dollars to production costs...
Thats what I was wondering and is the reason why I actually liked the first proposal that had the ballroom underground. They started to do consultation, ask a bunch of people that probably hadn't been to a convention in their lives, and now we have this. I rather enjoyed Grafton street in the earlier proposal as well. Now I am afraid we'll end up with a dark under-used overpass looking space. Yes the materials and design weren't the best but they had those two elements correct.
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  #3382  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 10:34 AM
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The whole "OMG!! The convention center is underground!!" false alarm was just another smokescreen thrown up the the "Save the View" obstructionists to try to derail the project. Red herring. A very expensive red herring.
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  #3383  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 3:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
The whole "OMG!! The convention center is underground!!" false alarm was just another smokescreen thrown up the the "Save the View" obstructionists to try to derail the project. Red herring. A very expensive red herring.
Exactly. It boggles the mind that a vocal minority managed to push onto the agenda the need for a convention floor to have natural light. I have never ever seen a conventional floor that had windows, for good reason.

I am currently in the midst of helping to organize a conference here in Halifax for next year, for about 750 people. The presentations will all involve showing medical images, and just about the last thing we would want is background light when people are trying to examine projected greyscale images!!!

I get why the SVT folk were making the argument, as they were trying to derail it. What really baffled me was other developers/architects who also jumped on the bandwagon that it was a "bunker".
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  #3384  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 4:00 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Yeah, plus no matter what happens people who are against the "idea" of the convention centre will disagree with it.
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  #3385  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 4:11 PM
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This is one of the problems with public consultation I guess. People don't always know design constraints or costs and not everybody can be expected to act in good faith. That is why you normally ask people what they like general terms or you look at existing buildings and then leave the decisions up to architects.

That being said, my guess is this isn't actually such a big challenge if they allowed the design.
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  #3386  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 4:14 PM
ScovaNotian ScovaNotian is offline
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The meeting rooms and exhibition space appear to be largely windowless, no? The concourses have windows. It is there people tend to chat and receptions are held. I've been to both above and below ground conference centres, and the above ground ones were vastly more pleasant.
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  #3387  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 6:33 PM
beyeas beyeas is offline
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Originally Posted by ScovaNotian View Post
The meeting rooms and exhibition space appear to be largely windowless, no? The concourses have windows. It is there people tend to chat and receptions are held. I've been to both above and below ground conference centres, and the above ground ones were vastly more pleasant.
I agree that having some reception type area with windows is great, but that didn't have to mean that the main convention floor had to be moved to over the street level. Sunlight in public areas is definitely great... heck, my favourite convention centre to go to is the one on Waikiki Beach because outside the meeting/convention rooms it is all open air. But what I disagreed with was that it was somehow better to have a convention floor that now creates a huge tunnel over Grafton, rather than having a convention floor below grade with reception space above combined with a Grafton Street that wasn't an entire block of darkness.
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  #3388  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 6:39 PM
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Originally Posted by beyeas View Post
But what I disagreed with was that it was somehow better to have a convention floor that now creates a huge tunnel over Grafton, rather than having a convention floor below grade with reception space above combined with a Grafton Street that wasn't an entire block of darkness.
We will have to see if they'll install enough (and the proper kinds of) lighting, even for throughout the daytime. The ceiling for Grafton Street, at least, won't at all feel too short.
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  #3389  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 7:10 PM
ScovaNotian ScovaNotian is offline
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I'm not sure below ground conference facilities are marketable anymore. That this doesn't bode well for Grafton I can see, and I am worried how it turns out myself. I'd like to have seen the casino replaced by a convention centre.
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  #3390  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 7:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman View Post
What is the deal with everybody worrying about letting light into the ball room/meeting rooms/convention room?
I wasn't really that worried and I only mentioned the ballroom, not the meeting / exhibition space downstairs. Now that I think of it, I did make some assumptions which I should clarify:
- that the wall of windows currently planned for the ballroom will have automatic blinds
- the venue will have high quality (i.e. high contrast) projectors
- projection screens won't be positioned against the windows
- since the opportunity is there, adding a skylight(s) would make for an interesting feature without adding a huge amount of cost and complexity. In retrospect, I realize that a skylight might not be totally appropriate for the space.

I am all for the ballroom above-ground though. Obviously the main space below ground will be best for the bulk of conventions and presumably the ballroom will be supplementary to that. As a meeting space, it can either be divided into 3 spaces (where only one would have natural light) or one large one (where the natural light is only on one wall).

The important thing to me is that it can also double as a very nice large event venue - something which (imo) Halifax doesn't really have. I realize this is subjective, but I would be much more proud to host a classy event, such as a high profile speaker at a fundraiser dinner, in an above-ground ballroom with views of the city - particularly from the atrium, which I also consider a very important area. Otherwise I might even prefer a different venue like the Cunard Centre over a below-grade space for such an event. As it is, the ballroom distinguishes the two areas, and sets the Nova Centre apart from at least some other cities' venues to prospective conference planners.

Cost-wise, It's likely more expensive to build this room above ground but at least it saves on excavation/blasting. And again, who knows but if someone picking conference venues thinks as crazily as I do, it could even make a difference in income once in awhile. As for the public consultation, well the public is paying for most of this so it's not totally offside (even if most ideas aren't implemented). And I do have a bit of faith in the general population and even more in the developer so I don't think moving the ballroom was a blind decision with no consideration to the budget or impact on the function of the space. Also, it would seem odd to me to invest so much money and interest into a convention centre that will essentially be completely underground. To me, the ballroom is an appreciable centrepiece to what is billed as a gathering place for the province.

It's worth noting that the Telus Convention Centre in Calgary has a very similar setup with the main conference area below ground and a large 'fancier' space on the 2nd floor used for dinners, etc. which also features an all-glass wall. I don't know if anyone else has been there but I think the upstairs room has a far nicer feel to it and I have not had any problems with seeing the screens.

I don't claim to be any sort of expert, I'm just throwing out opinions!


Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeJay View Post
We will have to see if they'll install enough (and the proper kinds of) lighting, even for throughout the daytime. The ceiling for Grafton Street, at least, won't at all feel too short.
I agree: the cover doesn't have to mean the street will be dingy but like anything else, it comes down to how well it's done.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScovaNotian View Post
I'd like to have seen the casino replaced by a convention centre.
I was originally hoping for a waterfront convention centre as well, just for the reason of making a unique space that relates to our city as opposed to having everything underground, which looks pretty much the same in every city. Nonetheless, even in its current location I think the above-ground component accomplishes that and is in a good central location to boot.
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  #3391  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2013, 12:58 AM
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A new article from CH:

TAYLOR: Nova Centre opposition still fuelling rumour mill
March 14, 2013 - 7:30pm BY ROGER TAYLOR BUSINESS COLUMNIST


Rank Inc. CEO Joe Ramia can’t understand how some people would think he would spend in excess of $15 million excavating the former Herald lands in downtown Halifax and not build the much-anticipated Nova Centre as planned.

Yet that seems to be a rumour circulating throughout the city.

For someone to suggest that excavation is just for show may seem ridiculous, but it is another indication that opposition to the Nova Centre still hasn’t given up, despite the one-million-square-foot complex officially being announced last spring.

...
...
...

He is aiming to have the plans finished within 30 days.

“The decision to move the convention centre from below ground … was a big decision, but another big thing was moving the entrance to the parking garage from Argyle Street to Grafton.

“The parking garage decision meant there is not one single thing that has been maintained from the original design … not one thing.”

The construction work will start with the footings and foundation, and then the parking garage, says Ramia, followed by the convention centre, which will span nearly the whole city block from Argyle to Market Street.

“We’re still aiming to finish construction by the end of 2015.”

http://thechronicleherald.ca/busines...ng-rumour-mill
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  #3392  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2013, 1:28 AM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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The anti-development people (aka those against the NC and everything else) have to be the sorest losers ever in the history of humanity.

Give up! Its getting built.

One of my favorite trade centres
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/15162274
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  #3393  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2013, 1:45 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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One commenter "SickOfThis" and his comment sounds so much like Tim B. and one of his old stories in The Coast.

One of the best things about this Nova Centre going forward is that for a change the anti-development group was shown to be just a loud vocal minority and their squeaky-wheel approach lost. PS: It will be great to see the permits approved and foundations poured so that the vocal minority will finally realize that they are in the minority - I am looking forward to see Halifax continue to move forward.

Last edited by fenwick16; Mar 16, 2013 at 12:24 AM.
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  #3394  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2013, 3:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
One commenter "SickOfIt" and his comment sounds so much like Tim B. and one of his old stories in The Coast.

One of the best things about this Nova Centre going forward is that for a change the anti-development group was shown to be just a loud vocal minority and their squeaky-wheel approach lost. PS: It will be great to see the permits approved and foundations poured so that the vocal minority will finally realize that they are in the minority - I am looking forward to see Halifax continue to move forward.
I,too, am so tired of all the naysayers and look very much forward to this center being built as well as all the other developments in the area!!!
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  #3395  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2013, 3:28 AM
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I was walking around downtown today just checking things out, various projects around etc, took a walk down Argyle heading up to Strange Adventures and just happened to be walking by as they started to clear the site/area for a fairly big blast. This was the first I got to see of it in person, I must say, it was pretty awesome.
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  #3396  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2013, 4:00 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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This project and to a certain extent Waterside (and maybe even HbD in it's totality) were the big game changers for HRM.

HbD made the process easier - gave more certainty to land owners/developers and made the process to appeal more difficult. While I don't want to call it punishment for people really wanting to stop progress, frankly I can honestly say it was (in my mind) and it was about time.

While I envy you guys being able to walk around and see all this (I can only see it in pictures or when I visit) I think HbD was the biggest game changer and now with the Regional Centre plan a lot of this anti-development sentiment will have 1 crack at being heard and that's it. That will be at the land use (zoning) approval stage; where it should be. Once the zoning is there - that's it; the decision is made and off you go...

HbD helped create a much clearer picture of what downtown was going to be. HRM's regional centre plan will also do the same - densification where it's appropriate, taller buildings in key areas and midrise along the corridors. If you think there is a lot of activity now, wait until the Regional Centre Plan is done!
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  #3397  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 11:53 PM
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2 photos from a few days ago:


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  #3398  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 2:29 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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That is an awe-inspiring perspective of the excavation. It looks like they have about another 15-20 feet to go below the Market Street level; however, I am just guessing based on these renderings - http://www.halifax2016.ca/?utm_expid...2Fdefault.aspx

I wonder if they will start the ground floors along Argyle Street (parking levels and exhibition hall) and then build west towards Market Street prior to completing the Market Street excavation? If so, they could use the concrete structure to support the Market Street retaining wall and then do the final excavation. Otherwise, if they do all the excavation prior to starting construction then they would have almost a 70 foot retaining wall along Market Street to support.

Any guesses on how the Market Street retaining wall will be supported? It seems like a monumental task.
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  #3399  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 2:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
Any guesses on how the Market Street retaining wall will be supported? It seems like a monumental task.
I'm guessing they'll use tiebacks if there aren't a significant amount of utilities buried beneath market street that deep.
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  #3400  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 2:46 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by Haligonian88 View Post
I'm guessing they'll use tiebacks if there aren't a significant amount of utilities buried beneath market street that deep.
Thanks Haligonian88. It will be interesting to watch how it is done. I found some images to illustrate the concept of tiebacks that you mentioned (are the current retaining walls supported this way since it seems reasonable that they would be?).

(source: http://www.deepexcavation.com/en/anc...ebacks-anchors )

Last edited by fenwick16; Mar 21, 2013 at 3:13 AM.
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