Harry Stinson on downtown Hamilton

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by realcity

sorry Steel but i think Renaissance is too generic. Every city has a renaissance building. I would like it be named Sapphire. Or something symbolic to the apex of the Golden Horseshoe.

It could be 55 - 60. It doesn't mean it will be the only thing built. If downtown experiences a post mod version of the early to mid 70s, there could be cranes building a dozen 300+ footers.

You guys are insane to even entertain the idea of anything close to a 60 foot tower just because Harry Stinson came into town a couple of times. He is just trying to get a whiff of Hamilton because of his miserable failures in Toronto. He is like a snake oil salesman who was exposed as a fraud in another town, but has not yet been in this one.

If he could not get a 70 story tower built in Toronto, you can bet that a 50+ story job will not happen in Hamilton.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Do you guys believe in Santa too? Just kidding.

What is the current rail transportation situation like in Hamilton? Is there a train to Union, either GO or Via? That is really what is needed if you don't already have it. A fast link to Union would send land prices soaring and it would make tall buildings a reality. I hope it happens.

There is GO service downtown, but trains only run at certain times. Buses run nonstop to Union.
The powers that be tell us that improved train service is coming, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[flar]

I'm not getting excited yet, remember Stinson is bankrupt. But it's nice to dream, I put whole bunch of skyline views in the latest Hamilton photothread that would look a lot sweeter with a building to match the height of Landmark Place.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by BCTed

You guys are insane to even entertain the idea of anything close to a 60 foot tower...

Oops! Maybe something close to a 60 foot tower is possible.

[realcity]

Stinson didn't just come to town a couple of times. He wants to buy land. He will announce his project in 30 days. read about the interview on www.raisethehammer.org or CHML might have it.

He also said he won't build a measly 50 unit building, they are as much hassle as 500 unit buildings. He wants the Lister and/or The Connaught he specifically mentioned a project like 1KW for the Connaught site. These are his words.... not mine.

Wouldn't that be great if Stinson proves everyone wrong. That's usually what he likes to do. He still has money believe me. When people go bankrupt its to protect their money not give it all away.

[raisethehammer]

yup, realcity is right.
Stinson's response to the question "are you broke?" was awesome - "yea, and so is the United States".

Trump has had money problems over the years...all of these guys know how to "go broke" and still have millons. He's just about done paying off his creditors with the sale of Sapphire site. CHML should post that interview (even though none of them ever work on my computer). Anyone who thinks we're on here blowing smoke for no reason needs to listen to that interview. He was VERY clear. He wants to do 1 King West again at Connaught. And he's interested in 500 unit projects, not 55 units. Read the summary report on RTH.com. It's a good recap. I heard most of the interview and that summary does good at presenting the highlights.
By the way, 1 King West is 51 stories so I don't think it's fair to say that he could never build a building approaching 60 floors (or feet. lol). He already did.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

yup, realcity is right.
Stinson's response to the question "are you broke?" was awesome - "yea, and so is the United States".

Trump has had money problems over the years...all of these guys know how to "go broke" and still have millons. He's just about done paying off his creditors with the sale of Sapphire site. CHML should post that interview (even though none of them ever work on my computer). Anyone who thinks we're on here blowing smoke for no reason needs to listen to that interview. He was VERY clear. He wants to do 1 King West again at Connaught. And he's interested in 500 unit projects, not 55 units. Read the summary report on RTH.com. It's a good recap. I heard most of the interview and that summary does good at presenting the highlights.
By the way, 1 King West is 51 stories so I don't think it's fair to say that he could never build a building approaching 60 floors (or feet. lol). He already did.

I am very familiar with One King West and the disaster that it has turned out to be --- Stinson has been forced out of that project by Mirvish. When I said that Stinson could not put up a 70 story building in Toronto, I meant that he can no longer put up such a building, as evidenced by the Sapphire debacle.

[markbarbera]

Sapphire debacle? That property development was stalled by his bankruptcy application back in March. He has sold it at a price that covers practically all of his debt identified in the bankruptcy file. Once closed, he will have sold that property, settled the bankruptcy and starting his new Hamilton developments. Looks like he's landing on his feet, and ready for new projects, and Hamilton is the beneficiary.

[raisethehammer]

it's kind of funny listening to folks on here who have always come across as 'big business or bust' have no clue about how the finances work for these individuals behind the scenes.
Stinson might be one of the wealthiest men in Hamilton. He's not broke...not even close. And his connections are insane. Much deeper and richer than any of our little, rinky-dink townhome builders.

[go_leafs_go02]

this guy seriously excites me. He understands the potential Hamilton has, but what needs to be done first. I hope he can come a major influence and transform Hamilton into one of the prime places to live

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Sapphire debacle? That property development was stalled by his bankruptcy application back in March. He has sold it at a price that covers practically all of his debt identified in the bankruptcy file. Once closed, he will have sold that property, settled the bankruptcy and starting his new Hamilton developments. Looks like he's landing on his feet, and ready for new projects, and Hamilton is the beneficiary.

It was sold at a price that was several million dollars lower than the debt outstanding --- most of the money from the sale will go to secured creditors. Once they are all paid, people such as those who were gullible enough to put down deposits on units will have to scrounge over what is left and only get a fraction of their hard-earned money back.

[BCTed]

From http://www.thestar.com/columnists/article/244110:

"Unfortunately, I have lost a great deal of money, and I have lost all confidence in Mr. Stinson as a person with whom to do business. Unfortunately, he is not competent to run the businesses operated by SHI and Club Corp."

–Affidavit of David Mirvish

[BCTed]

And let's not forget all of the people who bought units in 1 King West believing that they had surefire double-digit returns coming their way. The whole hotel/condo scheme fell apart when unitholders were taxed with corporate rates rather than residential rates.

I saw Mr. Stinson in action way back when he was peddling the 1 King units to anyone who would listen. He was quick (and, to me, misleading) with the numbers, and made it sound like high returns were guaranteed. Never believe anyone who does that.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

it's kind of funny listening to folks on here who have always come across as 'big business or bust' have no clue about how the finances work for these individuals behind the scenes.
Stinson might be one of the wealthiest men in Hamilton. He's not broke...not even close. And his connections are insane. Much deeper and richer than any of our little, rinky-dink townhome builders.

I don't know who you think suggested that Stinson was broke, but it was not me. I am sure that he has been able to pocket a reasonable amount of money for himself.

Among the wealthiest in Hamilton? I seriously doubt that, even if he actually were a Hamiltonian.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by BCTed

And let's not forget all of the people who bought units in 1 King West believing that they had surefire double-digit returns coming their way. The whole hotel/condo scheme fell apart when unitholders were taxed with corporate rates rather than residential rates.

I saw Mr. Stinson in action way back when he was peddling the 1 King units to anyone who would listen. He was quick (and, to me, misleading) with the numbers, and made it sound like high returns were guaranteed. Never believe anyone who does that.

that would be pretty much every condo developer in Toronto. Thanks for the advice.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by BCTed

And let's not forget all of the people who bought units in 1 King West believing that they had surefire double-digit returns coming their way. The whole hotel/condo scheme fell apart when unitholders were taxed with corporate rates rather than residential rates.

I saw Mr. Stinson in action way back when he was peddling the 1 King units to anyone who would listen. He was quick (and, to me, misleading) with the numbers, and made it sound like high returns were guaranteed. Never believe anyone who does that.

Um, David Mirvish's beef with Stinson is strictly about 1 King West. In fact, this is the development that has caused Stinson great pain, and is the only development that was not as successful as was hoped. The lawsuit Mirvish and his co-claimants launched on Stinson was based on the fact that they were not making as much money as they thought they would, but their investments certainly were not money losers. The proposed Sapphire site was subsequently sold off to settle the business bankruptcy, so it really was collatoral damage brought on by the Mirvish suit against Stinson. So, the folks who lost their deposits on it have Mirvish to thank just as much as Stinson.

Let's not forget Stinson had some very successful developments as well. The Pantages Hotel/Condo complex on Victoria Street is highly successful and is filled with happy condo owners. AS far as the quote from Mr. Mirvish, did you think that an affadavit from someone launching a suit against you would sing Stinson's praises? Besides, this is David Mirvish we are talking about. He is a shadow of the businessman his father was, and 1 King isn't the first bad business decision he has made in his career.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

that would be pretty much every condo developer in Toronto. Thanks for the advice.

Ever the smartass, I see.

Harry Stinson advertised high returns from hotel revenues from this project for those people who chose to rent out their rooms.

Typical condos are not explicitly pitched as investment vehicles.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Um, David Mirvish's beef with Stinson is strictly about 1 King West. In fact, this is the development that has caused Stinson great pain, and is the only development that was not as successful as was hoped. The lawsuit Mirvish and his co-claimants launched on Stinson was based on the fact that they were not making as much money as they thought they would, but their investments certainly were not money losers. The proposed Sapphire site was subsequently sold off to settle the business bankruptcy, so it really was collatoral damage brought on by the Mirvish suit against Stinson. So, the folks who lost their deposits on it have Mirvish to thank just as much as Stinson.

Let's not forget Stinson had some very successful developments as well. The Pantages Hotel/Condo complex on Victoria Street is highly successful and is filled with happy condo owners. AS far as the quote from Mr. Mirvish, did you think that an affadavit from someone launching a suit against you would sing Stinson's praises? Besides, this is David Mirvish we are talking about. He is a shadow of the businessman his father was, and 1 King isn't the first bad business decision he has made in his career.

Stinson probably should never have been selling units in a building that was still at the pie-in-the-sky phase.

I do not know anything about the Pantages complex other than the fact that the Blutrich guy from the article was involved. Do you have any links or other information to share about it and Stinson's involvement?

The bottom line with David Mirvish is that he was probably as involved with Stinson as anybody else has been, and he wound up very unhappy.

And while Stinson may have had past successes, he also has a track record of failures, such as the Candy Factory.

He may well end up being good for Hamilton (if he actually is serious about pursuing anything in Ham), but I am not anywhere near as ready to roll out the red carpet as everyone else on here, nor am I anywhere near as optimistic. And all this talk on here of a "new tallest" just because Stinson offered up a couple of sound bytes just seems insane to me.

[DC83]

^^ I think anyone talking POSITIVELY about Downtown Hamilton deserves a red carpet intro!! It's a rarity around these parts!

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by BCTed

Ever the smartass, I see.

Harry Stinson advertised high returns from hotel revenues from this project for those people who chose to rent out their rooms.

Typical condos are not explicitly pitched as investment vehicles.

Yes they are:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...ey-condos.aspx

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...ub=TorontoHome