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  #21  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2009, 2:27 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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This is an awesome model. What kind of software are you using to make it? Also, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of engineering project are you using it for? Something similar to the SOM study posted earlier?

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Originally Posted by M.K. View Post
Chicago Spire neither, but it is in your model. So no sense.
Not to be nitpicky, but you are wrong, the Chicago Spire has broken ground, its just now on hold as the developer "awaits financing", which at this point is pretty ominous and does not bode well for the project.
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  #22  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2009, 6:44 PM
M.K. M.K. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 View Post
Not to be nitpicky, but you are wrong, the Chicago Spire has broken ground, its just now on hold as the developer "awaits financing", which at this point is pretty ominous and does not bode well for the project.
No i am not wrong, the construction really did not broke ground, only a big round hole was made 1 year ago, nothing more, none pillars or foundations were made, not even to be considered an on-hold construction, unfortunatly. But i will not discuss that, cause i understand the reference there, for a far future. And i understand mainly when you are Chicagoer. It is sad, but the truth. See: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...153494&page=87

Last edited by M.K.; Sep 17, 2009 at 7:29 PM.
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  #23  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2009, 6:14 AM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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^^^ I'm not going to keep arguing with you after this, but you must not be familiar with the definition of the phrase "breaking ground". Most people use it in a looser sense than we do here on this forum and they usually mean "has the "ground" been disturbed in a way intending to lead to a building". Even if that were just a "hole" then most people would call the act of digging the hole "breaking ground".

Second is the definition of breaking ground used by this site and Emporis which is generally regarded as the authority on highrise statistics. Breaking ground is the beginning of contstruction. Construction, as defined here and on Emporis, is defined as a permanent, structural part of the building being constructed, usually the beginning of permanent load bearing foundation work. This is where you are wrong about it being "just a hole". What you can't see is about a hundred million dollars of foundation work that is buried under the site. This consists of "cassions" which are gigantic 5-15 foot wide concrete pillars that are drilled 125 feet down through the mud and into the bedrock. Cassion construction is almost universally regarded as a sure sign of the beginning of construction here and on Emporis. Therefore, since there are over 100 cassions (including some of the largest ever constructed in Chicago) in the ground under the Spire site, by the official definition of this site, Chicago Spire has broken ground.

So by virtually every definition of the phrase, the Chicago Spire has broken ground. Now am I saying that Chicago Spire is still "under construction"? No, it is clearly on hold. But I am correcting you on what seems to be a misunderstanding of the definition or use of a very important phrase in highrise construction.
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  #24  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2009, 12:17 PM
M.K. M.K. is offline
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I understand your Engineer point of view, but below those are the terms definied here in ssp: (Those definitions is what i follow (regardless i am engineer and designer) independent what is done under ground of foundations and its huge costs, that we do not see growing up above street level)

On main page of this search form http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/ passing the mouse above the status definitions you will see:

Built: Structure currently exists. Construction is complete and structure has potencial for use. Structures undergoing renovation remain on this category.

Construction: Structure is currently under-construction. Structural components are permanently assembled on-site. Excavation does not count as construction.

On-hold: [sub-item of construction] Construction had begun at one point but has now stopped. This is a sub category of construction.

Proposed: Structure is planned to be built and construction has not yet begun. Includes both structures which have been approved by local authorities and those which have not (we do not have distinct 'approved' category).

Stale-Proposal: The last news we have heard is that the structure was proposed but we have not heard any status updates for two years. After no news for five years a structure can be set as cancelled. This is a sub-category of Proposed which we use so that Proposals which drop from the news because they are most likely cancelled do not continue appearing in the standard diagrams.

Cancelled: Structure was at one proposed but has been cancelled by it's developer.

Destroyed: Structure at one time existed but no longer does. Includes structures which have been demolished, dismantled, imploded, destroyed in a terrorist act, destroyed by accident ,etc.

Vision: Structure's design is intended as an architectural vision only and is not to be built in it's current form. Vision structures do not get cancelled like proposed structures can.

Fantasy: Structure is a creation of our illustrators.

But i understand that the term 'Broken Ground' is controversal, cause what is done inside earth can not really be used for another goal of only a positive sky-direction useful building, cause we do not have a definition of 'negative' building going inside earth to the magma direction yet, as for 'building definition itself' all constructions normally goes higher from streets. This is common term of skyscraper we understand here. For more references see please http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyscraper independent of huge foundation engineers point of view (there is huge work underground for tunnels, stations, water drainage, bridges and whatever, that we don't include here, obvioussly) whether we here see only the 'Design' and 'Highest' or 'High' definitions aspect above the waterline (street) and visible to everyone.

I hope then closing this discussion, because this has nothing to do with the wonderful huge work for the 3D-Modeller here in this thread thema. It is ok in his model cause it was the tallest structure thought for the city already proposed there, that i hope one day to be really built. So it is a good reference to be kept. And sinceresly, this is REALLY OFF TOPIC.

Last edited by M.K.; Sep 18, 2009 at 12:30 PM.
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  #25  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2009, 8:32 PM
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Amazing! I like both of your models. They look great.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 11:37 AM
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very great work and im further impressed that you put so much time into this.

It just shows furthermore your love for this
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