CHICAGO: Transit Developments

[Beta_Magellan]

Speeding up the Blue and Orange lines would be nice (especially since it benefits the ordinary commuters who make up the bulk of the CTA’s traffic on those lines), though I’m not sure whether it would save the amount of time Emanuel’s suggesting—I’m guessing it was left out of the official press release because it may have been a little off-the-cuff (i. e. not deliverable at the level of investment we’re able to put in).

[nomarandlee]

The time between Midway and the Loop isn't too bad right now at 20-25 minutes. A far more pressing issue for better airport service to Midway is a less then appealing pedestrian connection between the terminal and the station.

[the urban politician]

I'm impressed with Rahm and I hope he keeps this up. His focus on the day-to-day things that can make Chicago more livable and attractive for businesses/visitors is worthy of praise.

One thing that the CTA has failed to address that kind of disappoints is the fact that their fare machines are only in English.

For a "global" city with visitors from "around the globe" that is not very inviting. I have seen foreign travelers get frustrated with CTA fare card machines for this exact reason. In New York's MTA you can choose between several languages. Chicago needs to catch up with the times.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Side note: how do you pronounce "Cuyler"?

If we're gonna go there, I have a whole list somewhere of pronounciation questions; the subject practically could warrant its own thread (nowhere near as much as East Coast cities, but still).
But I'll ask just one here: Shouldn't "Devon" correctly be pronounced with English intonation (accent on 1st syllable) rather than quasi French (or pick your region or dialect) intonation (accent on 2nd syllable)?
Mr Downtown, do your encyclopedic city resources contain any guidance as to pronounciations?

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by chicagopcclcar1

Could 70MPH Be Coming to CTA Blue and Orange Lines

Great and detailed post - thanks.

Going off on a tangent from that, and touching on the Red/Purple project discussion, do people here consider one major downside of subway routing to be that you can't hear a damn thing when the el is roaring through a subway? It's not just a comfort issue, but some people could perceive it as a safety issue (not hearing any suspicious movements behind you, or warnings shouted from other passengers, etc.).

[Mr Downtown]

I suppose you could make the case that "Devon" is pronounced strangely in Chicago, since the name (like Berwyn, Bryn Mawr, and Ardmore) comes from the Main Line suburbs outside Philadelphia. I guess I'm of the school that charming regional variations are to be celebrated rather than erased. Next you'll want to pronounce the H in Throop.

As for subway noise, just be glad the cars have sealed windows now. Screeching around the corner at State & Division in the old 6000s on a summer day reminded you that you weren't in no sissy town.

[chicagopcclcar1]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

As for subway noise, just be glad the cars have sealed windows now. Screeching around the corner at State & Division in the old 6000s on a summer day reminded you that you weren't in no sissy town.

Here's some video I shot from an open cab window of the Holiday Train. You will especially appreciate the shot of the flat car carrying the "Jolly Ole Guy" around the curve in the subway from State ST to Division ST at 4:17. Hint, turn your volume control DOWN a bit.

David Harrison
msibnsf on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cae6pFHuXwI

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

I suppose you could make the case that "Devon" is pronounced strangely in Chicago, since the name (like Berwyn, Bryn Mawr, and Ardmore) comes from the Main Line suburbs outside Philadelphia. I guess I'm of the school that charming regional variations are to be celebrated rather than erased. Next you'll want to pronounce the H in Throop.

I mostly agree with you about regional variations -- and yet I arrive at a different conclusion. That's because, LOL, we have a different sense of what's "charming." If the blue collar-y Chicawgo accent is understood to be relegated to certain neighborhoods, groups, classes, or situations, then I consider it charming -- but if we concede that the typical dialect of the whole metro area is the distinct Chicawgo-speak, then it's no longer charming to me and is kind of cockney embarassing. So if over by dere down in Bridgeport, like say Turty-Fift Street, dey don't want nobody nobody sent, dat's fine. But if conventioneers are told to walk down Bowl Mish and root for Da Bears near Da Bean, I'd rather we be a little more vigilant about our collective diction. (I wonder if there is a pronounciation guide used by the 6+ local TV news channels and the various local radio stations?)

As for Devon, that one's not a huge deal to me either way, but it's funny that the Pakistanis and Indians who now give life to a dominant stretch of the street are probably more inclined by default to use the English, and East Coast, pronounciation, bringing things full circle.

Anyhow I appreciate the improvements in subway noise, but for whatever reason I think we're still decidedly worse off compared to other systems.

[Beta_Magellan]

Wait, what is the Chicago way of pronouncing “Devon?” I (and most my friends) say “De-VON,” but we’re transplants—is it “Devin?”

I once gave tourists directions to the Sears Tower once, although being from northeastern MA it came out “Se-ahs.” As I walked away, I heard them talk about what a funny accent people in Chicago have…

[ChiSoxRox]

Originally Posted by Beta_Magellan

Wait, what is the Chicago way of pronouncing “Devon?” I (and most my friends) say “De-VON,” but we’re transplants—is it “Devin?”

I once gave tourists directions to the Sears Tower once, although being from northeastern MA it came out “Se-ahs.” As I walked away, I heard them talk about what a funny accent people in Chicago have…

It's De-VON. Another name I find strange is a neighborhood where a friend of mine grew up: Hegewisch (Heg-wish with a hard G). A sone more example, I once read a summary of a White Sox game against Boston that emphasized the local accents of the two cities in the title: Sahx vs. Sawx.

[denizen467]

^ Right, where the English and East Coast pronounciation would be something like DEV-un. I think you probably put your finger on the most-mistaken word on the Chicago map - Hegewisch.

Two that I still would like to ask about are Honore and Paulina, both streets that pass through Wicker Park.

Less pressing, but still with a sliver of uncertainty, are Wolcott, Leavitt, and Ada. And is there universal agreement on Racine or not (before we totally go O/T)?

That sawx/sahx story is great.

[ardecila]

Paulina rhymes with 'angina'.

I've heard Honore as 'ON-o-ray'.

WOHL-cott

LEV-itt

AY-da

Here's a real puzzler: Goethe.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Originally Posted by denizen467

And is there universal agreement on Racine or not (before we totally go O/T)?

There's an alternative to ray-SEEN?

Originally Posted by ardecila

Here's a real puzzler: Goethe.

Isn't it GER-tuh, like the poet?

[ardecila]

GO-thee.

CTA's announcer is the apparently the only fan of German poetry in Chicago.

[denizen467]

^^ ray-SEEN / ruh-SEEN (first syllable kind of like first syllable in "LaSalle")

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

Isn't it GER-tuh, like the poet?

Most unambiguous lexicography that came to mind:
GRR-tuh / GAIR-tuh
I've heard both (not about the street, but about the person and his eponymous institute) and don't know German. Perhaps it's a lost cause; in some cases there will never be agreement on how words ought to be converted from foreign languages. So this one gets clarified only if the City (or maybe the local TV and radio media) have settled on one. Or perhaps the residents and ward. Ardecila, I could be wrong, but maybe the bus drivers aren't the most authoritative? At least the second syllable - not a long E, no?

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

Isn't it GER-tuh, like the poet?

This is technically correct. At least from historical pronunciations

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Originally Posted by ardecila

GO-thee.

OMG that is so wrong.

How about Montrose? I mean, I know the pronunciation is MAHN-trows but I hear people from out of town say MAHNT-rowz all the time.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Ardecila, I could be wrong, but maybe the bus drivers aren't the most authoritative? At least the second syllable - not a long E, no?

The person who does the electronic stop announcements on CTA buses says "GRR-tuh" like a poetry scholar (at least on the 156) but I've never met a real Chicagoan who used that pronunciation.

The CTA guys are far from authoritative.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by ardecila

GO-thee.

CTA's announcer is the apparently the only fan of German poetry in Chicago.

I lived on Goethe for two years and everyone I knew pronounced it like GUR-tuh or GRR-tuh as some of you have phoneticized it. The only people I heard say GO-thee were people mocking tourists.

Additional supporting evidence, I never once had a cab driver question my GRR-tuh pronunciation, and I took a lot of cabs home.

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by denizen467

I mostly agree with you about regional variations -- and yet I arrive at a different conclusion. That's because, LOL, we have a different sense of what's "charming." If the blue collar-y Chicawgo accent is understood to be relegated to certain neighborhoods, groups, classes, or situations, then I consider it charming -- but if we concede that the typical dialect of the whole metro area is the distinct Chicawgo-speak, then it's no longer charming to me and is kind of cockney embarassing. So if over by dere down in Bridgeport, like say Turty-Fift Street, dey don't want nobody nobody sent, dat's fine. But if conventioneers are told to walk down Bowl Mish and root for Da Bears near Da Bean, I'd rather we be a little more vigilant about our collective diction. (I wonder if there is a pronounciation guide used by the 6+ local TV news channels and the various local radio stations?)

Is the New York accent cockney to you? All great cities have their own distinct dialect just as much as they have polished businesspeople with golden General American accents. Chicago's accent should be a source of pride as it reflects the unique roots and culture of our city. It would be far more concerning to me to see us lose our collective accent because then we'd be nothing more than a hinterland like downstate or Iowa. All places with a strong identity have their own strange dialect because they have a history and culture. That's why I'm not insulted when people say I have a Wisconsin accent or mock how I pronounce Chicago (I say it Chicago style). Then again I'm developing a messed up accent of my own that mixes Chicago, Wisconsin, and New Zealand pronunciations (I was horribly dyslexic as a child (still am) and had a phonetics teach from New Zealand. To this day I say words such as "warm" with a horrible Kiwi accent as a result).