50 King Street - 43s, 53s - York Developments (Approved)

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The chances of this development having a grocery store are zero mainly because both the developers and tenants wouldn't want them. Grocery stores are 24 hour operations as most of the shipping is done overnight. Tenants, understandable, don't want the noise of the trucks and their constant horning when reversing all night and developers know it as it makes the development less attractive to buyers/renters. This is why, even the densest of city centres, grocery stores at the base of condos are exceptionally rare.

The Galleria is a potential but even that is probably a no go. Even if they could manage to consolidate enough space in the mall to make it workable, it is not considered ideal by most grocers. Major grocery chains tend to prefer to buy their buildings/land and not to rent them. This is why many new grocery stores are stand alone buildings or part of a plaza where they can buy the property and then just pay monthly maintenance for upkeep etc..........much like a condo.

I think any new grocery store will be a filling of an empty parking lot that can be bought, has a large enough area to have a decent size store, easy access to roads and large enough loading zones, and have space for some parking which they would need less of in a downtown location.

I think one of the ideal locations would be the huge parking lot at Wellington/Waterloo on York Street which is up for sale. Such a location is more central as it would get shoppers not only from the core but SOHO & Old East as well as opposed to Wortley or Richmond Row which both already have access to a grocery stores.

North York City Centre has shown us the way
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7624...8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7606...8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7689...8192?entry=ttu

That's three full scale supermarkets

[jammer139]

Those 3 locations are attached to Subway stations which works quite well.

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

North York City Centre has shown us the way
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7624...8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7606...8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7689...8192?entry=ttu

That's three full scale supermarkets

[GreatTallNorth2]

There was definitely a proposal for Metro and LCBO to open in CitiPlaza. I received the floor plans, seemed to be a full size store. I am not sure what happened and who knows, it could still be an ongoing proposal.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

There was definitely a proposal for Metro and LCBO to open in CitiPlaza. I received the floor plans, seemed to be a full size store. I am not sure what happened and who knows, it could still be an ongoing proposal.

there is a real big problem with vagrants at Citiplaza. You can see them trying to lift products from the Dollarama.

[Djeffery]

The comments above about receiving being too noisy for the new complex are overstated. As shown, lots of places have this. It's downtown, you have an arena across the road that also operates on a 24/7 schedule with trucks coming and going. People don't move downtown expecting peace and quiet. Grocery stores aren't a non-stop hub of activity all night with 100 trucks coming and going. They'd probably get one truck a night from their own distribution centre and the rest of the vendor deliveries start in the morning. There would be more noise from the railway than from trucks honking their horn backing into a dock.

[ssiguy]

It's true that sometimes the noise factor is over blown but it's not what we think that matters but rather what potential tenants/owners do which is why developers avoid them. It's much like fire/police stations, people like being near them but not right beside them.

Galleria could definitely work but if they could get a big enough space and has the added benefit of already existing parking and a BRT station.

[Djeffery]

Since you brought up trucks delivering goods (which is what I do), CitiPlaza is no great thing for that either. It's fine for anything up to a 5 ton straight truck, but there is nowhere to deliver in full size trailers that grocery stores get the bulk of their stock in. I think potential tenants/owners of the 50 King buildings would be looking at the fact there is a grocery store on site as a plus, not a minus due to deliveries. And a new build has the ability to make those delivery areas more accessible to deliveries and less bothersome to tenants from the get go.

[jammer139]

As expected some NIMBY has filed an appeal of this zoning application to the OLT.


OLT pre-merit meeting to be scheduled someday in the future. Let's hope that the OLT kills this appeal at the pre-merit meeting stage and doesn't waste 2 years on never ending merit meetings, case management meetings, scheduling meetings for a hearing date followed by months awaiting their decision.





https://jus-olt-prod.powerappsportal...9-0022483dd266

[Djeffery]

Anna Maria Valastro no doubt. She protests everything downtown, starting at least with the Barking Frog patio years ago, and music on patios, and probably almost every building built or proposed downtown in the last decade.

[jammer139]

Looks like the first case management conference call is scheduled for Feb 20th with the OLT.

[CanadianTalk]

As shared in the previous post, there was a case conference call with the OLT on Feb 20th. The OLT released their decision a couple days ago and they have dismissed the appeal, which "results in the Official Plan Amendment and Zoning By-law Amendment coming into force!"

Next up is the site-plan process!

The person who appealed was actually a former city councillor.

https://www.omb.gov.on.ca/e-decision...AR-07-2024.PDF

[jammer139]

Great news indeed from the OLT. Tossing out this appeal and many others like this around the province should be standard procedure going forward.


Will be interested in seeing which of the many other York proposals is started next. Downtown is about to see 1200+ new rental units this year. The vacancy rate for these units will be monitored closely by developers to determine if they will proceed with building more projects downtown or turn their attention to other locations. Although the County Courthouse project is a minimum 4 years of construction I could see them starting another building outside the downtown prior to beginning this project.

[Djeffery]

York hasn't shied away from having several underway at once. I can see them getting shovels in the ground at the forks while also tackling another of their Bostwick buildings. Along with Wonderland N, that would be at least 3. Do they have anything else in the early stages actually underway other than Wonderland right now? After Centro is done, that will give downtown a couple or so years to absorb the new builds and create some new demand in time for the Forks to come on line if they started this year.

[MolsonExport]

Can't wait to see 53 stories rising in Downtown London. More than twice as many stories as One London Place. Now if they could just do something about the homeless and junkies...

[76samian]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Can't wait to see 53 stories rising in Downtown London. More than twice as many stories as One London Place. Now if they could just do something about the homeless and junkies...

We're putting them into these 2 towers! You didn't hear? 3 cheers for our Lords at city hall!!