Burrard Place | 168m, 112m, 56m | 54fl, 36fl, 13fl | 938,000 sqft | U/C

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Hed Kandi

http://www.straight.com/article-3547...de-art-gallery

The thing I don't like about the balconies is that they'll shadow the floors below.
So on every second floor, the east side of the corner will have an oppressive balcony above blocking the sky, and on every other second floor on the south side you'll have the same thing. The assymmetry does make it look like one side is better than the other.

Maybe the intent is for sun shading - but living spaces that are recessed behind balconies are already dark enough - you don't need an extra overhang above making them even darker.

[SpongeG]

the area could use a grocery store for sure

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Hed Kandi

This tower is just awful. And those balconies...I have no words to describe my distaste for them.

I don't care for it either. It is too hybrid looking, and that lends it a bizarre kind of look, with that big zig-zag, plus the "honeycomb" effect.
I wish that Vancouver could come up with a few more elegant classics (in whatever style is voted for) but not these things that look as if they were designed by someone ... (or something??) ... from outer space.

Excuse me, ladies and gentlemen, for sounding like my usual intellectually snobbish self, but that is my opinion.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The thing I don't like about the balconies is that they'll shadow the floors below.
So on every second floor, the east side of the corner will have an oppressive balcony above blocking the sky, and on every other second floor on the south side you'll have the same thing. The assymmetry does make it look like one side is better than the other.

Maybe the intent is for sun shading - but living spaces that are recessed behind balconies are already dark enough - you don't need an extra overhang above making them even darker.

The design of the balconies is poor for the functional reasons you state. It is also a poor design aesthetically. The alternating balconies make that edge of the building look rough, jagged and disheveled. From a distance, the building looks like a giant knife with nasty serrated teeth.

[itinerant]

I think you guys are off base WRT the balconies. They are south facing on the corner, so get the full range of the sun through the day. Every second floor has one of the two overhang / balcony patterns which shade a different part of the glass wall--but look.. all these suites have full floor to ceiling glass. They would cook otherwise. Additionally, the extra deep overhangs / balconies will likely provide additional sound baffling from the street noise in the intersection below.

The 'waffle' is actually quite a nice feature I think. But I will agree that there may be a bit too much going on in these towers. Is the design feature the serated balcony corner or the honeycomb/waffle. But by enlarge, I think they look quite sharp in contrast to most of the buildings going up. Including the one directly kittty corner at Drake/Hornby on the Ticketmaster site.

[officedweller]

I figure it's for sunshading too - but on dreary days - the overhanging balcony above (it looks like it extends 8-10 ft out (compare to ceiling heights)) seems oppresive. I wouldn't mind having one of the ones without the overhang though.

I don't mind the waffle - now, if that were the only deviation from a sleek glass facade it would stand out so much more.
(BTW - are there balconies within the grid of the waffle?)

The building does come across as background though.

It's not "iconic" because there's too much going on - the facade is too "busy". It's trying too hard. To be iconic there should be a prominent yet simple aspect (feature, style, texture, shape, whatever) that provides immediate impact. This one comes across as - massing, meh, seen it before (first two Wall Centre towers down the street) - oh, wait but look at that interesting detailing... that's not iconic.

i.e. Iconic is Eureka Tower in Mebourne (sleek) - it is not World Tower in Sydney (haphazard, busy)
Remember when those two were being built at the same time?

[Built Form]

Proposed Pattison Toyota tower may have grocery store
Tuesday, 02 November 2010
A new downtown grocery store could be back in play according to the architect behind the new $500 million plan to build a 775,000-square-foot mixed-use complex, including a 48-storey tower, at the corner of Hornby and Drake streets.
Originally the development, put forward by Pattison Developments Ltd. and Reliance Properties Ltd., included a proposed grocery store but that was removed from the working concept before Pattison released renderings last week (See “Rezoning key to $500 million city tower project” – issue 1097; November 2-8 and "$500 million development to redefine downtown skyline " – BIV Business Today, October 27).

“Some of the neighbours have said that they want a grocery store there,” said IBI-HB Architects associate director Jim Hancock. “We’re going to have to digest that because we originally had a grocery store in the project. The city discouraged it so we took it out. If we feel that there’s strength in the neighbourhood for that, we could give it more consideration.”

The grocery store would not replace the three-storey Toyota dealership that would look like a glass cube and front Burrard Street with four levels of service facilities located below ground.

Instead, it would be at the bottom of the 48-storey tower that currently is expected to have a café, art gallery and other small retail-type businesses.

gkorstrom@biv.com

http://www.bivinteractive.com/index....3300&Itemid=61

[djh]

Originally Posted by Built Form

Proposed Pattison Toyota tower may have grocery store
Tuesday, 02 November 2010

[snip]

“Some of the neighbours have said that they want a grocery store there,” said IBI-HB Architects associate director Jim Hancock. “We’re going to have to digest that because we originally had a grocery store in the project. The city discouraged it so we took it out. If we feel that there’s strength in the neighbourhood for that, we could give it more consideration.”

gkorstrom@biv.com

http://www.bivinteractive.com/index....3300&Itemid=61

Raises an interesting question, much the same as the "No Walmart in My Back Yard" argument. Pattison owns some major clout in the grocery market. He could build a huge bargain-price, or high-end grocery store on that location - basically on the edge of Davie Village - and overnight it would bankrupt all of the little stores in that area. Florists, general stores, bakeries, greengrocers, butchers and the like would just not be able to compete. So even though the neighbours are saying they want it, do they realise the potential for it reshaping their beloved neighbourhood and probably leading to many of their favourite Mom and Pop businesses having to close?

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by djh

Raises an interesting question, much the same as the "No Walmart in My Back Yard" argument.

That was the COPE council at the time. Lots of grocery stores have popped up since and this one would likely be a smaller scale store. Stores can co-exist. Hi-Rise Produce is still on Pacific with Urban Fare around the block, Kin's Farm Market is in City Square with a Safeway.

[204]

Originally Posted by djh

overnight it would bankrupt all of the little stores in that area. Florists, general stores, bakeries, greengrocers, butchers and the like would just not be able to compete. So even though the neighbours are saying they want it, do they realise the potential for it reshaping their beloved neighbourhood and probably leading to many of their favourite Mom and Pop businesses having to close?

What? There's already a Safeway on Davie, as well as a Supervalu, not to mention Choices. A large IGA sits on Burrard just a few blocks away. There are more than enough people in the area to support this supermarket. No mom and pop's are going to be bankrupted by this if it goes through. I for one would enjoy not having to trudge 3 or 4 blocks to get some groceries.

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by 204

What? There's already a Safeway on Davie, as well as a Supervalu, not to mention Choices. A large IGA sits on Burrard just a few blocks away. There are more than enough people in the area to support this supermarket. No mom and pop's are going to be bankrupted by this if it goes through. I for one would enjoy not having to trudge 3 or 4 blocks to get some groceries.

Agreed. I would guess the Supervalu has more to worry about than the mom and pops.

[SpongeG]

superripoff - that store is so expensive and they lock the cheese! and at night some guy follows you around - has happened a couple times when my friend and I were there - not a very welcoming store - they would walk further to safeway than deal with supervalue which was much closer or the produce store on davie even shoppers drug mart had better prices

[djh]

Originally Posted by officedweller

That was the COPE council at the time. Lots of grocery stores have popped up since and this one would likely be a smaller scale store. Stores can co-exist. Hi-Rise Produce is still on Pacific with Urban Fare around the block, Kin's Farm Market is in City Square with a Safeway.

Yes, I agree that stores can co-exist. But by the fuss that council made about preventing Walmart within the city boundaries, it would seem that city hall doesn't think they can - at least the old COPE council thought so, and perhaps the current council too, according to the previous comments above:

"...The city discouraged it so we took it out. If we feel that there’s strength in the neighbourhood for that, we could give it more consideration.”

Maybe I was exaggerating a little by saying little stores would be bankrupt overnight. I do think, though, that a marque Pattison store in a neighbourhood would draw away traffic from many of the smaller, dingier or less-competitive stores in Davie Village. People in Vancouver loooove new, so I can definitely see the loyalty to local small businesses disappearing if there's a new No-Frills or Nesters or whatever he decides to put in there.

And as a few others just mentioned, there are a few large supermarkets in the area already, so having one more will crank up the pressure on the small stores even more. They can't compete with the buying power of these stores, or pay the rising rents and simultaneously pay staff decent wages, so they'll have to close.

Not saying it's a good or bad thing, just saying that's what will inevitably happen.

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by djh

new No-Frills or Nesters or whatever he decides to put in there.

No Frills is a Loblaws banner.

Pattison Food Group:

Overwaitea
Save-On
Pricesmart
Nesters
Urban Fare
Cooper's Foods
Buy-Low

[SpikePhanta]

But don't residents nearby to the east want something there?
Like an alternative to a corner store and 711?

[jlousa]

Not surprised by the current revelation, with the amount of towers proposed for the surrounding area there will be enough new demand to support an additional grocery store. I would actually be a little surprised to see a Nestors though and expect if a grocery store were to happen it would be a PriceSmart and involve a slight redesign of the Hornby side.

[Distill3d]

I'd, uh, hate to be "that guy" but, has anyone else not noticed this:

Burrard Gateway | 466ft/42m | 148-fls, 36-fls, 13-fls | 750 000 sqft | Proposed

As excited as I think I'd be if a 148 floor building WAS built or proposed in Vancouver, I just don't think anyone other than Lego men would be able to fit in it if it was only 42m tall.

[Some guy]

Can't believe I didn't notice.

[hankthetank]

The balconies look cool... until you get some drunk guys spitting or spilling beer right onto your balcony below them. AM I RIGHT!?

[golog]

The balconies remind me of:
- VM Houses in Copenhagen (built 2005)
- the way Malmo's turning torso tower (built 2001) used a single floorplate which is cost effective, but used a simple rotation to achieve a much grander impact

If the curvy curtain wall of 99 Pender goes ahead, all Vancouver needs to complete trendy bingo is a building with some kind of complex cantilevered shape, or one with big horizontal or vertical sections missing.

I like the balconies, it's nice to experiment. So long as the trends are not built en masse, it's an option or some flavour and not a mistake. It seems that the balcony railings are far enough back that nothing will fall onto them, and the additional exposed concrete ledge will be a great place for a potted plant or just keeping the bike out of the BBQ + hammock patio area