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View Poll Results: St Patrick's Island bridge comp: Which one do you like?
Rosales + Partners 15 8.11%
Halcrow Yolles (The Reach) 57 30.81%
Halcrow Yolles (Eddie & Flow) 16 8.65%
Manu Chugh 26 14.05%
Busby Perkins + Will 37 20.00%
Buckland Taylor 5 2.70%
Saucier + Perotte 7 3.78%
Delcan 17 9.19%
Marc Boutin 21 11.35%
Sturgess Architecture 47 25.41%
Infinity Engineering 69 37.30%
Arup & Kasian 36 19.46%
Arup & Falko Schmitt 1 0.54%
Arup & Frederick 2 1.08%
SPF with Arup (O-Bar) 9 4.86%
SPF with Arup (Glide) 53 28.65%
Rogers Stirk Harbour 4 2.16%
DeJong 8 4.32%
IBI 0 0%
CH2MHILL (option 1) 2 1.08%
Team IBHL 1 0.54%
RFR / Halsall 9 4.86%
Endres Ware & Amman Whitney 10 5.41%
Other (specify with post) 6 3.24%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 185. You may not vote on this poll

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  #401  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 5:23 AM
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I know it is against the article posting rules, but I'm going to reproduce this whole editorial because I want to respond to several parts of it. Mods, feel free to edit as you see fit.

Quote:
Smoother waters for St. Patrick's Bridge

By MICHAEL PLATT, Calgary Sun

Last Updated: March 22, 2010 5:11pm

It’s sleek, simple and almost free of controversy.

And the best part — the pedestrian bridge that will link the East Village to the far side of the Bow River was partially designed by Calgarians, and not very famous Calgarians at that.

No high-priced architects to be found here, handed a lucrative contract on name alone.

Of course, there’s plenty of time to be told this bridge is to be hand-carved from titanium, by monks secluded deep in the Pyrenees mountains.

With this city council, there’s always a margin for error in judgement.

Until then, it’s difficult to find criticism with the process that’s landed Calgary its latest pedestrian bridge, forecast to link the East Village with St. Patrick’s Island and the north shore by 2012.

The price? At just under $25 million, there’s bound to be many a taxpayer who believes any new bridge is a waste of cash, especially when the island needs a major, multi-million dollar facelift to make the bridge worthwhile.

But if we must have new pedestrian bridges over the Bow — and it seems Calgary must, for some reason — then the path taken by the St. Patrick’s bridge competition is the one to follow.

“As a side-benefit that was completely unintended, we have a winner with local involvement,” said Chris Ollenberger, President and CEO of The Calgary Municipal Land Corporation.

“It wasn’t part of the equation, it wasn’t part of the decision, and so they stood entirely on their own, against people from around the globe.”

Unlike that other Bow River pedestrian bridge, the one designed by Santiago Calatrava, this bridge was open to submissions from all over the world.

It was a contest that drew 35 entries, and a smorgasbord of designs, from complex and grand, to low key and simple.

And then, again contrary to the Calatrava process, the public was given an opportunity to judge the future look of their East Village river span, by rating the bridges at an open house and online.

Of course, neither bridge allowed the public to answer the one question that was most pertinent — but whether Calgary wants or needs pedestrian bridges is apparently a moot point.

At least with the St. Patrick’s bridge, there was a choice about the concept, if not the construction.

From the 35 entries, finalists were chosen, and from there, a winner was named.

“I was excited to be involved in the competition, and to be going up against the world’s best, and we’re so excited to come out on top,” said John Ford, an engineer with Halsall Associates.

Those who criticised the Calatrava crowning are vindicated: There apparently is homegrown talent capable of competing with the great Spanish architect, who builds his bridges in Spain and ships them overseas.

Having a famous name, it seems, does not give you a monopoly on landmark bridges.

The two bridges are very different designs, with unique criteria and height restrictions, but to say one is better than the other is to argue your favourite colour rules the palette.

It’s a matter of personal taste — and the winning St. Patrick’s bridge is certainly tasteful, if uncluttered is your thing,

Ford said the design submitted by RFR/Halsall is purposely simple, featuring three steel arches spanning the river at different heights, while touching the island in the middle.

The press release announcing the winner characterizes the future bridge as “emulating a stone skipping across the Bow River” and it’s a pretty apt description.

But if the structure is free of adornment, the proposed lights are as fancy as it gets: Still subject to final approval, the bridge will have halos on the arches, and the potential to project designs onto the frozen river.

As a bonus, Ford says the whole thing should be easy enough to construct in Canada.

“It’ll be on budget, and it’s a very simple structure — that’s what we we’re shooting for, to complement the site, and not to overtake the environment,” said Ford.
Link

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This article altogether misses the mark, and does so by employing some misleading statements.

First, the misleading statments:

"With this city council, there’s always a margin for error in judgement."
-Misleading because this decision, and managment of this project is not in City Council's hands, but CMLC's.

"At just under $25 million, there’s bound to be many a taxpayer who believes any new bridge is a waste of cash, especially when the island needs a major, multi-million dollar facelift to make the bridge worthwhile."
-Misleading because it suggests that "taxpayers" might have a qualm with the fact that some nonzero amount of their tax dollars are going toward this project, which is not happening.

"But if we must have new pedestrian bridges over the Bow — and it seems Calgary must, for some reason..."
-Weasel words "for some reason." The writer is implying that whichever reason or reasons pedestrian bridges over the Bow, in general, are needed is trivial, debatable, mysterious, or otherwise not valid. The reason why pedestrian bridges over the Bow, in general are a must have is pretty simple. People need transportation infrastructure links over geographical features like the Bow River to reasonably function in Calgary. Narrowing it down to these bridges in particular, the Centre City Plan calls for them and provides sound rationale for that recommendation.

"Of course, neither bridge allowed the public to answer the one question that was most pertinent — but whether Calgary wants or needs pedestrian bridges is apparently a moot point."
-Weasel word "apparent." See above point. Pedestrian bridges are unquestionably a need to allow citizens to cross geographical or manmade structures. By the use of the word "apparent," the writer calls into question the validity of an undeniable fact. It is a moot point, period. This is not the "most pertinent" question, because it is not a question in the first place.

"Those who criticised the Calatrava crowning are vindicated: There apparently is homegrown talent capable of competing with the great Spanish architect..."
-This outcome did not vindicate anyone based on this criteria. Calatrava did not submit an entry to this competition. No "homegrown talent" proved themselves capable of competing with [Calatrava], since no such direct competition existed.

"Having a famous name, it seems, does not give you a monopoly on landmark bridges."
-Weasel words "it seems." Nothing about this outcome has made it "seem" that having a famous name (alluding to Calatrava) denies one of a monopoly on landmark bridges. Calatrava never entered this competition. His non-entry denied him of a "monopoly," not his non-selection.

---------------

Now, what I disagree with.

"And the best part — the pedestrian bridge that will link the East Village to the far side of the Bow River was partially designed by Calgarians, and not very famous Calgarians at that.
-That's the best part? Really? The best aspect of this entire project is the place of residence of some of the designers involved, and how famous they are or aren't? Not the location, the aesthetics, the functionality, the usability, the time it will save a number of commuters, or the potential economic and social spinoffs that it will enable? Frankly, I disagree. The writer's view of what is the best part of this project is myopic and absurd in my opinion.
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  #402  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 5:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frinkprof View Post
I know it is against the article posting rules, but I'm going to reproduce this whole editorial because I want to respond to several parts of it. Mods, feel free to edit as you see fit.

Link

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<snip>
Frink, you should send that to the editor.
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  #403  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 1:23 PM
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Great points Frink!

It's Platt, what more could you expect?

Once again I find this undercurrent of "anti-Calgarian hostility" to be a very troubling movement. The Sun (and David Parker of the Herald) are starting to border on xenophobia with some of the remarks they have made about contracts being won by architects/manufacturers/suppliers from out of Calgary and the country.

These journalists are an embarassment to a city that has clearly moved beyond such petty hate and jealousy and embraced a much larger world.
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  #404  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 1:58 PM
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What I'm continually amazed at is that none of these "journalists" ever seem to question the millions of dollars spent on pedestrian bridges that cross freeways.

Really folks, I'm pretty sure a bridge over the bow will see just a tad more traffic than a bridge over Stoney Trail that essentially goes from nowhere to nowhere.
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  #405  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 2:05 PM
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You should post that in the comments section. One at a time.
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  #406  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 3:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
You should post that in the comments section. One at a time.
Nah, not my style. If I start contributing to those comments sections, someone please shoot me. If you think people give forum members a bad time about hiding behind pseudonyms, comments sections are much much worse. They are a lose-lose situation, every time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
Great points Frink!

It's Platt, what more could you expect?

Once again I find this undercurrent of "anti-Calgarian hostility" to be a very troubling movement. The Sun (and David Parker of the Herald) are starting to border on xenophobia with some of the remarks they have made about contracts being won by architects/manufacturers/suppliers from out of Calgary and the country.

These journalists are an embarassment to a city that has clearly moved beyond such petty hate and jealousy and embraced a much larger world.
Meh. If it's not him writing these editorials, someone else would. People eat it up. It's hard to imagine that there's someone as big of a blowhard out there as Rick Bell (or even bigger) that would take his place if he ever softened up or retired, but there probably is.

Not to say people shouldn't be held accountable though.
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  #407  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 3:03 PM
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Advertising in the Calgary Sun, is like having Tiger Woods as your spokesperson for consulting services just after you found out about the tenth mistress.
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  #408  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 3:07 PM
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80% of revenue comes from ads, as opposed to readership. Who exactly are the newspapers accountable to?
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  #409  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 3:23 PM
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80% of revenue comes from ads, as opposed to readership. Who exactly are the newspapers accountable to?
Their advertisers, who pay attention to eyeballs (readers). In theory.
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  #410  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 3:36 PM
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meh
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  #411  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 3:44 PM
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The buildup and result of this bridge competition is like having all the winning numbers to the lottery...but not in the same line. That glimmer of hope I keep having for Calgary keeps getting smaller and smaller.
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  #412  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 4:00 PM
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^ Does everything collectively happening in the East Village gives you less hope?
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  #413  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 4:13 PM
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It's a bit disappointing - little imagination. It's not the worst design but there were a few that were a lot better.
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  #414  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 5:05 PM
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What I really dislike about Xenophobic comments that people like Platt and the like make, is that they never think twice about how it would be reciprocated. OK, so we won't hire foreign architects, but that means our architects won't be hired elsewhere either. Or to continue along that argument, our energy companies should not be allowed to operate in foreign countries. Great idea! Someone should tell Platt that we live in a global economy. People live, work and do business all around the globe. Welcome to it.
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  #415  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 5:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
^ Does everything collectively happening in the East Village gives you less hope?
I am looking at the bigger picture not necessarily to what is being built. But to the whole industry and process as a whole. Competitions should be something that excites a city, which this one did for the most part, however from day one it was met with problems. If competitions continue to present a bad experience then the public has little faith in them.

I am also looking at how media must always put a negative spin on most development. To many of us we do not pay much attention to what the Herald or Sun has to say. However, the general public do and they are the ones the industry needs support from in order to push design further.

When I say I begin to lose hope, it is becuase when these visions begin to see some assemblance of reality they are to often then not watered down and thus become another bland staple on what is a good city, but could be a great city.

Just my opinion though.
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  #416  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 5:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusili View Post
What I really dislike about Xenophobic comments that people like Platt and the like make, is that they never think twice about how it would be reciprocated. OK, so we won't hire foreign architects, but that means our architects won't be hired elsewhere either. Or to continue along that argument, our energy companies should not be allowed to operate in foreign countries. Great idea! Someone should tell Platt that we live in a global economy. People live, work and do business all around the globe. Welcome to it.
I question if these people even understand how our country got started in the first place. We've been living in a global economy for centuries.
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  #417  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 9:16 PM
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Thanks for posting that Frink. If you hadn't I would of. Yeah, Platt's a douchebag, but we know that already. Remember when he misquoted a few members of this forum in one of his articles a while back (myself included). He has no credibility, but at least he's not as hypocritical as the British media with their new "own the podium" style campaign for the London games. He was for the competition from the start and would likely praise the winner no matter what the result.
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  #418  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 9:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
Great points Frink!

It's Platt, what more could you expect?

Once again I find this undercurrent of "anti-Calgarian hostility" to be a very troubling movement. The Sun (and David Parker of the Herald) are starting to border on xenophobia with some of the remarks they have made about contracts being won by architects/manufacturers/suppliers from out of Calgary and the country.

These journalists are an embarassment to a city that has clearly moved beyond such petty hate and jealousy and embraced a much larger world.
I watched the preview for Jamie Oliver's food revolution on Sunday and something struck me. No matter what the topic, there are always narrow minded xenophobes opposing change. When people in this small Virginia town started asking Jamie what right he had to come in on some high horse from England, it just as well could have been Calgarians opposing the Calatrava bridge based on his ethnicity (you never would have heard a peep had it been an American architect).

That and this one scene where a DJ is interviewing him and asking him why he's in their town when there are plenty of other fat towns in America. He also told Jamie they like things the way they are and can;'t survive eating lettuce (I'm amazed he didn't throw latte sipping liberal in there somewhere). Ignorant people exist everywhere and will oppose change simply because they are uncomfortable with it.
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  #419  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 9:34 PM
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Oh man I watched some of that as well! I couldn't believe how Oliver was getting treated, he just wants to bring a healthier lifestyle to those fatties!

Did you see that family? EVERYTHING was being deep fried, I damn near threw up when they cooked an entire weeks worth of food for that family and put it on the kitchen table. All yellowy-brown. BAAAARF!
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  #420  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 9:59 PM
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Haha! I know! The sad part is they were the nicest people in that town. The worst was that lunch lady bitch who looked like Fred Flinstone. "The kids love pizza for breakfast! It's healthy!"
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