Palm Trees of Canada

[Toronto6A6B]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

New york winters, especially Long Island, are considerably warmer than even Windsor Ontario.

Those look to be windmill palm, the same we have in BC that also now grow from seeds produced by tree grown here. Some even seed themselves now.

Just checked out the hardiness zones:
Long Island NY: 7b
Windsor On & the Niagara region: 7a <--- Better success rate if people buy windmill palms from the said nursery (NYC/Long Island) ?

[Toronto6A6B]

Originally Posted by sparsky

This might be of interest:

http://nypalms.com/

Wouldn't it be nice if we could see those tall windmill palm trees in Niagara Falls or the Royal Botanical Gardens in Hamilton or even downtown Toronto such as in front of Queen's Park (Parliament) or The Beaches especially along the board walk or High Park or even Edwards Gardens ?

I strongly suggest the Horticultural Societies of Toronto consider a pilot project using windmill palm trees from this NY nursery: nypalms.com

[Toronto6A6B]

According to this link for Ontario:
http://gardencentre.com/Information/...9/Default.aspx
Or this link with clearer map:
http://www.veseys.com/ca/en/learn/re...5fdd911ef94c29

Obviously the southern most tip of SW Ontario (Point Pelee On) is 7b, same as NYC/Long Island.
SW On is 7a
The Niagara region is also 7a

Therefore theoretically Ontario can grow windmill palms using trees from the said Long Island NY nursery.

I hope Parks Canada or the City consider growing some windmill palms as a pilot project. When are we going to see palm trees (outdoors) in Ontario !

[Toronto6A6B]

Don't remember if I quoted this statement from Toronto Gardens or not but I am posting it any way.

According to Toronto Gardens:
http://torontogardens.blogspot.ca/20...-and-zone.html

Quote:
Within the GTA (my note: Greater Toronto Area), the specifics of your landscape can push you higher or lower. Close to Lake Ontario, you're more likely to be Zone 6b and might have a microclimate (a pocket that is a zone unto itself) that's Zone 7. In a more exposed situation, or farther from the lake, you might be Canadian Zone 5a or 5b.

[Toronto6A6B]

According to this link below, palm trees are "gaining popularity" in NY.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/07/...ng-popularity/
Click the video, wait for the commercial (of course the green golf course), then the news about palm trees gaining popularity in NY.

And more palm trees in NYC, not windmill palms which are the hardiest trunked palms, but the "tropical" royal palms (I think they are royal palms grown in S/Central FL).
http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-...-trees-21.html

I am hoping/thinking growing windmill palm trees in S/SW Ontario is a stone throw away by using young windmill palm trees from that Long Island nursery which grows them from seeds ... - What do you folks think ?

[brickell]

The link above looks like Christmas Palms. They're can't take a freeze either though. So I'm not sure how they'll handle NYC.

[Toronto6A6B]

Originally Posted by brickell

The link above looks like Christmas Palms. They're can't take a freeze either though. So I'm not sure how they'll handle NYC.

Don't know either but would like to know if they survive the winters.

[Toronto6A6B]

It's not a myth anymore ! Here's the proof ...

New Jersey can grow windmill palms !

According to the same link (just different page of the same thread, City Data): Page 14
http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-...-trees-14.html

Scroll down (you will see lots of pictures), continue to scroll down a couple of posts, you will see more pictures, below the last picture of this post, there's a link:
Growing Palm Trees in New Jersey Video, click it ...

After the sponsor's commercial, you will see a nursery installing a 14 foot windmill palm tree.

At the bottom of this video, I quote:
Most people don't think palm trees can grow in New Jersey, but they can. A few hearty palms can survive the New Jersey winters and people throughout the state are planting them to give everything a more tropical look. (Video by Ed Murray /The Star-Ledger)

According to USDA Plant Hardiness Zones: New Jersey
http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/#
6a, 6b, 7a, 7b

I don't know WHERE it was in the video but I kind of heard the nursery is "Tucked Away Farms ..."

[Toronto6A6B]

According to Tucked Away Farms in New Jersey (please google):

Quote:
Cold Hardy Palm Trees Species / Types for Colder Climates

Most cold hardy Palm Tree species represent the tropics and it can be hard to believe that some cold hardy palm trees can withstand a deep winter freeze in subzero temperatures such as Needle Palm species. The Needle Palm tree type is cold hardy down to a temperature of -10's degrees F.

Some varieties of cold hardy Palm species can be grown successfully in NJ NY PA CT MD and much further north. The Palm Tree species which can withstand colder temperatures are considered more cold hardy thus we have "Cold hardy Palm Trees". Windmill palms (Trachycarpus Fortunei) Needle Palms ( Rhapidophyllum Hystrix ) Mediterranean fan palms (chamaerops Humilis ) are known to receive snowfall in their native habitats to give you an idea on the Palm Trees cold hardiness. These do very well in our area.

[Toronto6A6B]

According to my post above:
Some varieties of cold hardy Palm species can be grown successfully in NJ NY PA CT MD and much further north

Hardiness zones ...

NJ: 6a, 6b, 7a, 7b
NY: 7a 7b (Long Island area), don't want to quote Buffalo as it's even colder than Toronto
PA: 5a to 7b
CT: 5b to 7a <---- THIS IS KEY !!!!!

Assuming Tucked Away Farms was talking about the 7a in CT, well then SW Ontario (Windsor area 7a/Point Pelee 7b) and the Niagara regions (7a) should be able to sustain windmill palm trees !

I think the Ontario government and the City must realize that windmill palm trees will survive in SW Ontario (Windsor area 7a/Point Pelee 7b) and the Niagara regions (7a). I really want the governments to prove me wrong !

What do you folks think ?

[Mike K.]

They'll survive for a few years in NJ and NY and then they'll get zapped by a one-in-ten winter. Despite being cold hardy those palms can only sustain so much for so long. Some people will put in the effort to protect their trees during cold snaps but many won't and they'll realize the following spring that their tree is starting to rot. When you're dealing with a wet 7a/7b climate and a palm that originates from a dry ~7b climate you're going to lose the tree eventually.

It happens quite often even out here on the southwest coast of BC (most of which is 8b with some pockets of 9a around Victoria), particularly with young trees. A decent cold spell will eventually kill younger palms that are not yet accustomed to what can be wet and chilly winters (dry climates affect affect these palms differently than wet climates).

[Toronto6A6B]

By digging into Tucked Away Farms' website, here's another proof that SW Ontario (Windsor area 7a/Point Pelee 7b) and the Niagara regions (7a) can grow windmill palm trees !

Go to their website (just Google Tucked Away Farms), on their home page:
- Scroll down, on the left, you will see "Recent Projects"
- Click the Hillsborough NJ (the reason I picked Hillsborough NJ was because the pictures shows a 15 foot tall windmill palm trees, assuming it was installed by Tucked Away Farms, AND I assume they provide warranty for such a tall windmill palm trees installed).

Now let's check the hardiness zone for Hillsborough NJ:
- It's west of Edison NJ (a solid 7a), east of the river (boundary of 6b/7a) according to the USDA Hardiness Zones below:
http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/#

So Hillsborough IS zone 7a which is the same as SW Ontario (Windsor) and the Niagara region (7a).

What do you folks think ?

[Toronto6A6B]

Originally Posted by Mike K.

They'll survive for a few years in NJ and NY and then they'll get zapped by a one-in-ten winter. Despite being cold hardy those palms can only sustain so much for so long. Some people will put in the effort to protect their trees during cold snaps but many won't and they'll realize the following spring that their tree is starting to rot. When you're dealing with a wet 7a/7b climate and a palm that originates from a dry ~7b climate you're going to lose the tree eventually.

It happens quite often even out here on the southwest coast of BC (most of which is 8b with some pockets of 9a around Victoria), particularly with young trees. A decent cold spell will eventually kill younger palms that are not yet accustomed to what can be wet and chilly winters (dry climates affect affect these palms differently than wet climates).

If it's the case, then this Tucked Away Farms will eventually lose businesses.

Perhaps it's good to observe to see how vibrant that 15 foot windmill palm is over the years (zone 7a).

[Toronto6A6B]

Here's another proof that tall windmill palm survive 7a WITH picutre: This windmill palm looks at least 18 feet to me, you can't have protection for a palm tree this tall, can you ?

Quote:
This Windmill is in Sterling VA, about 25 miles WNW of Washington D.C. Its been there since 1994, and that is a zone 7A. Its a COLD suburb.
See picture for proof:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-...-trees-11.html

What do you folks think ? Windmill palms survive zone 7a ?

[UglymanCometh]

Lets find out... I've got a needle palm and banana(s) in the ground right here, right now in zone 6b. If the needle makes it through this winter, it's gonna be time for a windmill or two.

Still north of Windsor in sunny exotic Metro Detroit...

(ironically, the hardiest plant in my garden this year is the needle palm...)

[Toronto6A6B]

Oh, needle palm is hardier than windmill palm, it will definitely survive 6b.

Having said that, I like windmill palms as it's the hardiest trunked palm that might survive 6b/7a.

[Mike K.]

Originally Posted by Toronto6A6B

If it's the case, then this Tucked Away Farms will eventually lose businesses.

Perhaps it's good to observe to see how vibrant that 15 foot windmill palm is over the years (zone 7a).

I'd say they'll get tucked away sooner or later

Windmill palms die in Victoria all the time. In a 6 or 7 climate palms will require substantial protection for extended periods of the fall and winter to survive. As long as you're prepared to protect them properly then your chances of keeping the tree alive increase. Now that's easy when the tree is below 10 feet but once it picks up size keeping it fully protected will become trickier.

[Toronto6A6B]

Originally Posted by Mike K.

I'd say they'll get tucked away sooner or later

Windmill palms die in Victoria all the time. In a 6 or 7 climate palms will require substantial protection for extended periods of the fall and winter to survive. As long as you're prepared to protect them properly then your chances of keeping the tree alive increase. Now that's easy when the tree is below 10 feet but once it picks up size keeping it fully protected will become trickier.

Oh ! I didn't know "windmill palms die in Victoria (BC) all the time", it's a surprise to me.

Thanks for sharing your observation.

It's true that protecting a 10' or taller windmill palm over the winter is a challenge !

[north 42]

Windmill palms won't die in Victoria from cold, it would be from some other reason like disease or poor soil.
I feel that the only palm that could survive here in Windsor-Essex or Niagara region long term and without protection would be the Needle Palm. And even then, it would have to get established before it could weather a cold winter and make it to the spring. They can certainly grow here with just a bit of protection such as a covering of leaves or a large garbage can placed over top on the coldest nights. Long term Windmill Palms would struggle to survive during the coldest winters without protection. Young windmills will survive for a few years unprotected before succumbing to the cold and snow and ice.

I'm bringing in my Royal Palms from our terrace today for the winter, getting too cold for them to stay out now. My potted Windmill Palm will stay out another couple weeks before I bring him in for the winter. I'm still toying with the idea of keeping him outside all winter and protecting him though, but that seems like a lot of work.

[Toronto6A6B]

Hi,

I know Needle Palm can survive colder weather than Windmill Palms but I prefer Windmill Palms.

I would love to see if you could keep your Windmill Palm outdoors and let us know how well it goes this winter. There's someone in Hamilton who kept his Windmill Palm (about 5 foot tall) in his backyard and it survived when the picture was posted (I think it's in the Weather Network, please Google Weather Network, then search "windmill palm" to see picture).

Oh, where did you get your Windmill Palm ?