Palm Trees of Canada

[north 42]

I bought it at Colasanti's in Leamington two years ago. I think being in a pot would make it too hard to overwinter on a terrace. I would have to protect it. Maybe I'll try next winter.

[Toronto6A6B]

Some one mentioned in this or other forum that Windmill Palms are available at Depot in Toronto but I have never seen one.

I did a search again for the Windmill Palm planted outdoors in Hamilton for your convenience.
http://www.theweathernetwork.com/pho.../windmill-palm

This time, the owner Larry Johnson posted one more photo (I only found 1 photo last time):

Feb 22 2012: His own description "Snowy Palm (cold hardy Windmill Palm)"

Jan 8 2013: His own description "Cold hardy Windmill palm,Sabal minor,prickly pear cactus uncovered for a few days."

From this 2013 photo, it looks like the palm is as tall as the fence, what do you think ?

I am hoping Larry Johnson will join this forum and share with us how he takes care of his beautiful Windmill Palm in Hamilton (zone 7A I think)

[Toronto6A6B]

Alright, Larry Johnson actually responded to the questions from someone who asked how he took care of his palm in the winter.

Quote:

John Smith - Please explain, what do you cover it with and what other maintenance do you provide tending to it?

larry johnson - Hi John Palm is covered with a stryrofoam box with a 23w flourescent outdoor light bulb. I turn the light on in Jan,feb at night just to give it a little warmth and the box comes off in march.Palm is in raised bed with lots of mushroom compost,last winter it was mostly unprotected. Cheers lj

John Smith - Thx for the info Larry, so that box is covering the whole tree, leaves and all? Must be huge, how do you stop the wind from destroying the box?

My comment: Must be a huge box, AND how to cover the palm when it grows to 10 or 15 feet ????? But at least we now know it only needs a 23W fluorescent outdoor light bulb (instead of a chain of Xmas lights), and only need to turn the light on at night in Jan/Feb, AND "last winter it was mostly unprotected". We can check the records for last winter to see what temperatures it dropped to.

[Toronto6A6B]

First arctic air of the year: Did unprotected windmill palms survive in Toronto/Niagara region/SW Ontario/Windsor ? Assuming mature windmill palms survived down to -12C.

All data taken from the US NWS, in C.

Current temperatures at 8am Nov 24 2013 in Toronto:
Toronto Island (East) -9
Toronto Island Airport -10
Toronto downtown (River st near Queen/DVP) -9
Toronto downtown (St George near Bloor) -11
Toronto East York (SW of Coxwell/Danforth) -11
Note: This is not the coldest time of the year yet, Toronto could get colder than -9/-10/-11 for a few nights in Jan/Feb depending on the year ! Would those few cold nights wipe out any unprotected, mature windmill palms in downtown Toronto ?

The following is the overnight minimum temperatures:

No hope areas: Suburb of Toronto, N of/near Hwy 407
Markham (Kennedy/16th) -13
Markham (404/16th) -14
Markham Buttonville Airport -14
Vaughan Woodbridge -13
Toronto Pearson Airport -12

No hope area: North of hwy 401 in Toronto
Toronto North York (Bathurst/401) -13
Toronto North York (N of Sheppard/between Bathurst/Dufferin) -13

Hopeful area: S of hwy 401
Toronto Leaside (S of Eglinton, between Laird/Leslie) -12
Toronto downtown (St George near Bloor) -11
Toronto East York (SW of Coxwell/Danforth) -11
Toronto Island (east end) -10
Toronto downtown (River st near Queen/DVP) -10
Toronto Island Airport -11

Hopeful areas: SW of Toronto
Oakville -11
Burlington Piers (surrounded by lake Ontario) -9
Hamilton -10 or -11

Hopeful areas: S of lake Ontario near the Niagara region
Depending on direction of the cold air, the following areas (S of lake Ontario) are moderated by lake Ontario:
Grimsby -11
Vineland station -9
Port Weller (surrounded by lake Ontario) -6
St Catharines -7
Niagara-On-The-Lake -8
Niagara-On-The-Lake/US Ft Niagara State Park -7
Lewiston (Niagara river) -9
Niagara Falls downtown -9
Fort Erie -11
Buffalo NY (near water) -9

Hopeful areas: SW Ontario
Long Point PP (surrounded by lake Erie) -8
Delhi (very inland, N of Port Dover) -12
St Thomas -10
London On -11
Rondeau PP (facing lake Erie) -8
Kingsville (near Leamington) -9
Lake Erie (S of Point Pellee) -7
Windsor -9

St Catharines (-7) the warmest area in SW Ontario, that's what I heard !
Unprotect windmill palms near Port Weller (-6) would have the best chance of survival for any pilot project.

[Delirium]

the inner courtyard at the Burrard Hotel has a nice collection of palms. looks more like Miami than downtown Vancouver. it's open to the public and during the summer months they have a bar and DJ spin.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/theburrard/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/theburrard/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/theburrard/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/theburrard/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/theburrard/

[Toronto6A6B]

Wow, it looks like Florida to me !

[Toronto6A6B]

Temperatures in Toronto S of Hwy 401 at 1pm Nov 24, in C:
Toronto Island: -4 to -5
Toronto downtown: -4 to -6

Sunny and the snow of my S facing backyard is melting. Non scientific but is the micro climate of my S facing backyard about 4C warmer than the reported temperatures (-4 to -6) ?

Observation the following day: Sunny, there's still some snow on the lawn/slope, current temperature 0/+1C at 11:30 am.

[north 42]

Hopefully the current cold blast that has hit the west coast hasn't damaged or killed too many palms and subtropicals in BC. I have a feeling that most survived unscathed and will be fine though. Updates would be appreciated, thanks.

[10023]

Not surprising given the English weather over there. There are of course lots of palm trees in southern England, because while there isn't always a real summer, there is rarely a prolonged frost in the winter either.

[Toronto6A6B]

Toronto will be embracing a -18C next Wed/Thu ... Windmill palms will not survive such temperatures -

[Toronto6A6B]

Toronto tonight:

Temperatures:
-22C (The Weather Network)
-25C (Environment Canada)

Wind chill factors:
-37C (The Weather Network)
-38C (Environment Canada)

No hope, game over !

[north 42]

I think that the only palms that will be able to live long term here without protection in extreme Southern Ontario and coastal Nova Scotia would be the Needle Palm and possibly Sabal Minor. Trunking palm would only be able to live for a few years until the next extreme cold wave hits and kills them. Still, better than nothing!

[Mike K.]

Originally Posted by north 42

Hopefully the current cold blast that has hit the west coast hasn't damaged or killed too many palms and subtropicals in BC. I have a feeling that most survived unscathed and will be fine though. Updates would be appreciated, thanks.

Everything's fine on the south Island as far as I can tell. My palms weren't fazed but who knows, these could be famous last words with so much winter still ahead of us!

[annapolis]

Hi, just thought I'd put in since I have an interest in climate and am familiar with a lot of patterns around NS.

NS is mostly zone 6a/6b, with significant sections as low as 5a (Truro and non-coastal Northern mainland) and as high as 7a (southwest area) with some islands and peninsulas rarely dipping below -12 or -13, which technically is 7b/8a.

This considered, large rhododendrons, magnolias and cannas are ubiquitous in much of the province. Certain ivies that I have only seen growing indoors elsewhere are able to survive outside here. Peaches and grapes are grown commercially at latitudes similar to Montreal and Ottawa, and in the very mild southwest one can find the odd monkeypuzzle and windmill palm. Also, someone in this thread posted a palm in Sydney, which is further north than Montreal. I know of someone near Pubnico who grows a lemon tree, which I think indicates a microclimate of Zone 8. Winter here may not get terribly cold, but it is still several months long which may present a challenge for plants that require a long growing season.

The Atlantic keeps things mild at higher latitudes but has other consequences: the warmest winter areas are generally the coolest in the summer. Precipitation is abundant, and we are prone to tropical and post-tropical storms, as well as the odd hurricane which can lay waste to delicate plants and trees that are in full leaf. Some areas are able to capture the best of both worlds, enjoying a 6b/7a zone rating and long frost-free period with 1000 or more GDD > 10°C in the summer.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by annapolis

Hi, just thought I'd put in since I have an interest in climate and am familiar with a lot of patterns around NS.

NS is mostly zone 6a/6b, with significant sections as low as 5a (Truro and non-coastal Northern mainland) and as high as 7a (southwest area) with some islands and peninsulas rarely dipping below -12 or -13, which technically is 7b/8a.

This considered, large rhododendrons, magnolias and cannas are ubiquitous in much of the province. Certain ivies that I have only seen growing indoors elsewhere are able to survive outside here. Peaches and grapes are grown commercially at latitudes similar to Montreal and Ottawa, and in the very mild southwest one can find the odd monkeypuzzle and windmill palm. Also, someone in this thread posted a palm in Sydney, which is further north than Montreal. I know of someone near Pubnico who grows a lemon tree, which I think indicates a microclimate of Zone 8. Winter here may not get terribly cold, but it is still several months long which may present a challenge for plants that require a long growing season.

The Atlantic keeps things mild at higher latitudes but has other consequences: the warmest winter areas are generally the coolest in the summer. Precipitation is abundant, and we are prone to tropical and post-tropical storms, as well as the odd hurricane which can lay waste to delicate plants and trees that are in full leaf. Some areas are able to capture the best of both worlds, enjoying a 6b/7a zone rating and long frost-free period with 1000 or more GDD > 10°C in the summer.

Many of the plants you can grow there, we can also grow, evergreen Southern Magnolia, Rhododendrons also do well here, but need the soil to be acidified to really grow well. English Ivey grows up huge trees here, and also flowers. Peaches are grown commercially here in Windsor-Essex and Niagara, and both regions have many high quality wineries as well. Even Monkey Puzzle Trees and Windmill Palms can grow here, but need protection every few years when the temp drops to -20C or lower. Our zones range from 6a/6b and up to 7a around St Catharines and southern Essex County and Pelee Island. Windsor has the highest GDD in the country, and has very long, hot summers which really help sub tropicals grow fast.
I feel both coastal NS and extreme SW Ontario can grow pretty much the same plants when it comes to temperature. I'm hoping the recent cold spell we had hasn't killed the Monkey Puzzle Tree in Niagara On The Lake!

[north 42]

Check out this year for Windsor, 2012, pretty impressive!

http://www.city-data.com/forum/weath...io-2012-a.html

[pdxtex]

how has this thread been going for 6 years? im not knocking it by any means, im often in awesome of palm trees of the pacific nw, but it should get an honorary award or superthread status. this and the walled city of kowloon.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by north 42

I feel both coastal NS and extreme SW Ontario can grow pretty much the same plants when it comes to temperature. I'm hoping the recent cold spell we had hasn't killed the Monkey Puzzle Tree in Niagara On The Lake!

Once you go out to coastal locations there is a big gap between coastal NS and SW Ontario. Cape Sable's record low for example is -18 (this is from 1990 data here -- Windsor from the same period is here). Vancouver's also -18 whereas Windsor is -29 and Niagara is around -26. Windsor also hits -20 on average a bit more than once per year.

The averages only tell part of the story because the areas with maritime climates are much less variable.

That being said, I don't think the climate in exposed coastal areas in NS is good. It's not really true that the southern tip of NS is similar to Niagara or Windsor though. It's a very different climate.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by someone123

Once you go out to coastal locations there is a big gap between coastal NS and SW Ontario. Cape Sable's record low for example is -18 (this is from 1990 data here -- Windsor from the same period is here). Vancouver's also -18 whereas Windsor is -29 and Niagara is around -26. Windsor also hits -20 on average a bit more than once per year.

The averages only tell part of the story because the areas with maritime climates are much less variable.

That being said, I don't think the climate in exposed coastal areas in NS is good. It's not really true that the southern tip of NS is similar to Niagara or Windsor though. It's a very different climate.

Maybe not a similar climate, but many of the same marginal plants can be grown in both regions. This winter here has been cold and crappy so far unfortunately.

[Paul Ontario]

This winter is proof that Windsor, ON and Victoria, BC have very different climates. Victoria has palm trees that have been planted decades ago. Windsor hit -25C which was as cold as Mars and many regions of Canada's north. The news has compared Mars to Ontario's cold in January. I have seen videos of tall evergreen eucalyptus trees that would certainly have been destroyed by the Toronto ice storm of 2013.

I suggest that we pot up palms for the summer at the Toronto waterfront if we can store them somewhere for winter. Many of us in southern Ontario like exotic plants or trees. Halifax has done something like that before on a small scale. But it's nothing like clusters of palm trees in the ground in Vancouver or Victoria. Which are there all year. We hate you... No, just green with envy.

The idea of palm trees in the ground anywhere in Ontario sounds amusing but it's a pipe dream. I like exotic stuff but I can keep it real. Saying that palm trees can grow as well in the Niagara area than Vancouver is delusional. Summer might be hotter and wetter but winter is a no go.

Thanks to all of those who have posted palm tree photos on the west coast. Now some of us can move to free ourselves of brutal winters like the beast that was. Or still is? Snow is in the forecast for mid-April.

Magnolia grandiflora must be flowering in a Vancouver right now. My lawn is still brown but not white! The snow just melted! Yes!