Trillium Line Upgrades & Extension (Stage 2) [Greenboro to Airport/Limebank] | U/C

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I feel like the Limebank extension stays. It's fairly cheap and private developers are footing part of the bill.

I tend to agree, but not because the province isn’t paying the full cost, but because it is beneficial enough for developers that they are willing to contribute. Ford and the PCs are pro business and they will see this extension as good for business.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Catenary

The Trillium line is hamstrung by a 30 second delay in the signals. At Brookfield, the siding is long enough that the northbound train usually proceeds through without stopping, but the southbound train crawls along waiting for a signal. At Gladstone, both trains have to wait as the track is much shorter. This isn't a coordination issue, they are coordinated to meet, but the wait won't go away.

I understood that Stage 2 was to include a complete replacement of the Trillium Line signalling system, so I was assuming (hoping?) that the 30-second delay would no longer be required with a new system?

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I understood that Stage 2 was to include a complete replacement of the Trillium Line signalling system, so I was assuming (hoping?) that the 30-second delay would no longer be required with a new system?

Good Day.

Full replacement of signalling, yes - it will be easier for the new PPP operator to have a consistent system over the entire T-Line.

They will also be extending most of the passing sidings to the max possible; that will allow some easing of operational speeds.

Reduction of the 30 second rule, maybe - it will depend on if they go to a CBTC like system and any SOR rule changes that that might allow.

This is where they REALLY need to / should double track Bayview terminus. It would eliminate at least one bottleneck. IMHO.

Other experts ?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I tend to agree, but not because the province isn’t paying the full cost, but because it is beneficial enough for developers that they are willing to contribute. Ford and the PCs are pro business and they will see this extension as good for business.

The Ontario PCs are also intellectually (using the word loosely) married to the the anti-transit mindset, and possibly even the anti-transit movement, that is embedded into American conservatism thanks to the likes of the Kochs.

The Ford mantra of "subways subways subways" was a suburban dog-whistle, all about getting transit, of any mode, off the surface to make room for more drivers.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The Ontario PCs are also intellectually (using the word loosely) married to the the anti-transit mindset, and possibly even the anti-transit movement, that is embedded into American conservatism thanks to the likes of the Kochs.

The Ford mantra of "subways subways subways" was a suburban dog-whistle, all about getting transit, of any mode, off the surface to make room for more drivers.

subways, subways, subways is a nice slogan, but we all know how long they take to plan and build and it is so easy to slow these projects down by our beloved politicians if money is not presently available to complete the project.

I know that the Ford theory is give the roads back to cars, but really getting rid of transit off the surface does not make a whole lot of difference with a few exceptions. It is a pathetic way of dealing with traffic flow and resolving transportation issues.

[roger1818]

For those upset about the cancellation of the 2006 plan, take splice in Amsterdam’s North/South metro. Originally planned in the 1960’s it was canceled for political reasons. In the 70’s they built other metro routes and in 2002 they resurrected the plan again and began construction. It was originally to be completed in 2011 but delays and significant cost overruns has resulted in construction to only be completed in January 2018 and the line is scheduled to open on July 22.

Interestingly, it to will initially be limited to 6 minute service because the last stretch will only be single tracked. Also, there will be significant changes to bus and tram service as a result of the new line. Sound familiar?

See https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/d...-line-finished

And http://railjournal.com/index.php/met...confirmed.html

[OCCheetos]

moving discussion

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Quote from a CBC article:

Mayor Jim Watson and local MPP Yasir Naqvi both said they would support the idea of adding a stop at the proposed Civic hospital campus on the north-south Trillium Line as part of the second phase of the city's light rail expansion project, set to begin in 2019.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...tion-1.4514418

Moving the station a little south to serve both sides of Carling would make too much sense. No no, we must spend millions for an additional station a stone's throw away.

Oh wow, ouch. I didn't realize he meant add.

Not only that, but depending on when the hospital / station is built, wouldn't that also mean yet another closure?

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

moving discussion



Oh wow, ouch. I didn't realize he meant add.

Not only that, but depending on when the hospital / station is built, wouldn't that also mean yet another closure?

Trillium Line is scheduled to be closed for 1.5 years in 2020-21. So that's when they can add this station presumably.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

moving discussion



Oh wow, ouch. I didn't realize he meant add.

Not only that, but depending on when the hospital / station is built, wouldn't that also mean yet another closure?

Give me a break. Phase 2 requires double length platforms, so we are already rebuilding the Carling platform. Is it not possible to extend the platform south under the Carling Avenue bridge so there is access to the station from either side of Carling? Doesn't that solve the problem? It seems crazy to have two stations, one just north of Carling and one just south of Carling. Two stations in a couple of hundred meters. Pure craziness!

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Oh wow, ouch. I didn't realize he meant add.

While he said add, I highly doubt if that will actually happen. The media backlash for having stations about 100m apart would be huge.

Not only that, but depending on when the hospital / station is built, wouldn't that also mean yet another closure?

Unless they have to do track work, I doubt it.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

For lack of a better nearby example, Toronto has done plenty of grade separation work without resorting to total shutdowns of GO service. Shouldn't station upgrades be able to largely be completed overnight? Many of them don't even require entering the ROW

In this case, I think there's just too much track/bridge/tunnel/signal/station work that needs to be done all at once.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

In this case, I think there's just too much track/bridge/tunnel/signal/station work that needs to be done all at once.

If you look at the Georgetown South project--a massive combination of everything you just mentioned--it was done without shutting down rush-hour GO service.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

If you look at the Georgetown South project--a massive combination of everything you just mentioned--it was done without shutting down rush-hour GO service.

Well, as mentioned in the other thread, there are far more constraints with the Trillium Line corridor that make temporarily diverting trains to allow for track work (for example) much harder/impossible to do.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

If you look at the Georgetown South project--a massive combination of everything you just mentioned--it was done without shutting down rush-hour GO service.

How long has this project been going on and when will it actually be completed? We have seen only a modest improvement in service after years of construction. I gather that the right of way is much less restricted and how much money has been poured into this project so far?


Clearly, Go Transit cannot close down one of its primary commuter lines. With the Trillium line, it is only students, and the relatively short distance makes a bus replacement acceptable.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Clearly, Go Transit cannot close down one of its primary commuter lines. With the Trillium line, it is only students, and the relatively short distance makes a bus replacement acceptable.

That’s a big factor. A GO Train has a capacity of close to 2000 people. To shut down the line each train would need to be replaced by about 20 high capacity buses. That would be incredibly expensive if possible at all. The trillium line trains have a capacity of 240 people or about 2.5 buses. Much easier to replace.

As for the attitude that they are just students, yes OC Transpo has been caught having the attitude that they can do whatever they want because the students are forced to pay for a uPass regardless of what service provided to them. Hopefully the students will fight back.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by roger1818

That’s a big factor. A GO Train has a capacity of close to 2000 people. To shut down the line each train would need to be replaced by about 20 high capacity buses. That would be incredibly expensive if possible at all. The trillium line trains have a capacity of 240 people or about 2.5 buses. Much easier to replace.

As for the attitude that they are just students, yes OC Transpo has been caught having the attitude that they can do whatever they want because the students are forced to pay for a uPass regardless of what service provided to them. Hopefully the students will fight back.

http://charlatan.ca/2017/03/o-train-...onths-in-2020/

“It is not a Carleton project. At this point in time, we have not received any feedback from students or staff regarding this project,” [Chernushenko] said.

I'm a student at Carleton and I understand the need for the shutdown, but I do wish it was avoidable.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

http://charlatan.ca/2017/03/o-train-...onths-in-2020/



I'm a student at Carleton and I understand the need for the shutdown, but I do wish it was avoidable.

I was referring to the following quote. It shows a bit of arigace on OC Transpo’s part.

The Trillium Line is heavily used by Carleton University students. That’s guaranteed revenue for Transpo.

It doesn’t even matter if Transpo sends out trains or buses on special routes. The money will still come in.

Full-time university students are paying for a u-pass through the fees on their tuition bills. It’s a mandatory charge and students can only opt out of the u-pass under special circumstances. They could take carpool or walk more, but Transpo will still collect the u-pass revenue.

The per-ride fare revenue is relatively small for the Trillium Line.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...-line-shutdown

[McC]

That’s not a quote.