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  #21  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
Agreed. I think you want both, not one or the other.

Personally I'm not keen on either a casino or an aquarium (you've seen one, you've seen them all). I am still dreaming that we could get some kind of unique attraction that a hundred other cities don't already have. Perhaps a pipe dream.
Yup. I want the cake, and I want to eat it, too.

I'm not married to the aquarium idea. It's more the idea that we need some attractions that will bring additional tourism dollars to the city. A zoo would be cool, if the area's big enough. Whatever it is, it would need to be a year-round operation.
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  #22  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 10:34 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Arena would be fantastic, besides sports it could complement the various festivals that take place in central Ottawa, but it is hard to see how it could get paid for.

Melnyk would have to write off the current arena and pay for a new arena. Downtown would probably have more revenue, but probably not that much more to justify the costs.

Feds won't pay for professional sports facilities.
Ontario will only pay for professional sports facilities if they are in Hamilton.
City might be willing to pay something but most most politicians in the city receive very generous support from Lansdowne-related businesses and individuals and I can't imagine the next council wanting to displease the Greenbergs.
Watson has made it clear that Rideau Carleton Raceway gets what Rideau Carleton Raceway wants, so no downtown or Kanata Casino.

So that leaves a developer willing to pay for all or most of an arena as a loss leader for a development and I don't think Ottawa developers have the kind of margins that that would require.

Best case scenario would be the city buys the CTC at close to book value to use for some combination of park/ride and a sportsplex conversion (a project that would be eligible or fed/prov funding) and Melnyk uses those funds to partner with a developer for a Lebreton arena.

But I wouldn't count on it.
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  #23  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Arena would be fantastic, besides sports it could complement the various festivals that take place in central Ottawa, but it is hard to see how it could get paid for.

Melnyk would have to write off the current arena and pay for a new arena. Downtown would probably have more revenue, but probably not that much more to justify the costs.

Feds won't pay for professional sports facilities.
Ontario will only pay for professional sports facilities if they are in Hamilton.
City might be willing to pay something but most most politicians in the city receive very generous support from Lansdowne-related businesses and individuals and I can't imagine the next council wanting to displease the Greenbergs.
Watson has made it clear that Rideau Carleton Raceway gets what Rideau Carleton Raceway wants, so no downtown or Kanata Casino.

So that leaves a developer willing to pay for all or most of an arena as a loss leader for a development and I don't think Ottawa developers have the kind of margins that that would require.

Best case scenario would be the city buys the CTC at close to book value to use for some combination of park/ride and a sportsplex conversion (a project that would be eligible or fed/prov funding) and Melnyk uses those funds to partner with a developer for a Lebreton arena.

But I wouldn't count on it.
Having the arena at lebreton would sell more tickets, imo, because of the Gatineau crowd and walk up tickets. Sens will thrive on the single game walk up tickets and the fact that transit is right next to the arena.

I think it makes too much economic sense for it to not happen. The CTC only has around 9 years left before it is obsolete as an NHL arena. Somebody will buy it for something.
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  #24  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 11:01 PM
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  #25  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 11:20 PM
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Total area of the 4 sites is 53 acres... this potential to be a city-changing development if we can get the big players like Hines, the pension funds/REITs, etc involved... I think if Ottawa developers are involved they will need to team up together and/or with a major finance partner. Sure hope we can get some interesting proposals and not a repeat of the RFP debacle from the first phase.
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  #26  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 12:02 AM
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I thought Pimisi Barrens was supposed to hold all the things other neighbourhoods don't want in their backyards. I, for one, welcome the future Lebreton Lansdowne Park, Scotiabank Place and Carp Dump.
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  #27  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
Total area of the 4 sites is 53 acres... this potential to be a city-changing development if we can get the big players like Hines, the pension funds/REITs, etc involved... I think if Ottawa developers are involved they will need to team up together and/or with a major finance partner. Sure hope we can get some interesting proposals and not a repeat of the RFP debacle from the first phase.
I sure hope that they break it up, rather than handing it to one developer or consortium, because you have to know that residential development is going to be a component of most bids. That was part of the problem with the first phase.

Surely someone like the Minto group has the financial wherewithal to compete on part of this.
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  #28  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 12:59 AM
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I would like to see the following:

1) NHL arena/casino combo
2) National museum
3) Aquarium
4) A large hotel


I recently visited Toronto and their downtown aquarium, which is truly a people magnet. I also visited the zoo and if we ever get a zoo in Ottawa, it needs to be on the fringe of the city with lots of land to create a suitable situation for the animals. Because of animal rights, small urban zoos, which give large animal little space to roam, will never be built again.

If we were to build major attractions on Lebreton Flats, it may then be suitable to build our central library there, perhaps on a riverside location with beautiful views. Central libraries are becoming prime civic buildings now in many cities, so we better not cheap out on it. Of course, isn't that what Ottawa does?
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  #29  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 1:07 AM
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I don't see the need for a library in this digital age
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  #30  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 1:23 AM
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Regarding a possible arena, I think something like Rogers Place in Edmonton would do really well on the Flats, mixed in with other buildings, and possible connected directly to the LRT station. Also, I agree that a hotel would make a good compliment to the area/arena.

I'm just hoping some external (outside of Ottawa) consortiums take a bid at this project. Ideally, given it's magnitude and relevance to Ottawa, I'd love to see a bigger name international architecture firm get involved.
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  #31  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 3:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Stevenson View Post
I don't see the need for a library in this digital age
Well not the way they currently exist. If we actually spent the money it could become more like a hub for people to do research and work etc. Rather than just some dusty old bookshelves
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  #32  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 4:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Stevenson View Post
I don't see the need for a library in this digital age
I guess you haven't visited Montreal or Vancouver's central libraries...they are SO much more than book depositories. They are incredible civic gathering places with a wide range of facilities and services.
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  #33  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 4:18 AM
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If they do put the NHL arena in LeBreton Flats, it would be nice if they forego selling the naming rights and name it after Lord Stanley to remind the world where the Stanley Cup comes from Even more fitting if this Lord Stanley Arena has its main entrance on the extension of Preston Street, since his full title is Lord Stanley of Preston
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  #34  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 4:38 AM
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And don't forget the adjacent Lord Stanley of Preston brew pub.
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Ottawa's quasi-official motto: "It can't be done"
Ottawa's quasi-official ethos: "We have a process to follow"
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  #35  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 6:56 AM
Temperance Temperance is offline
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
I guess you haven't visited Montreal or Vancouver's central libraries...they are SO much more than book depositories. They are incredible civic gathering places with a wide range of facilities and services.
I second that...And the new libraries in Amsterdam and The Hague are also fantastic and very well-used
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  #36  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 8:27 AM
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As much as i like the idea of a new hockey arena there... why does anything think this would happen?

Melnyk owns a 18 year old arena and the parking and the land around it. He isn't going to build a new one on land he doesn't own. I don't imagine him just writing it off.
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  #37  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Kibb View Post
As much as i like the idea of a new hockey arena there... why does anything think this would happen?

Melnyk owns a 18 year old arena and the parking and the land around it. He isn't going to build a new one on land he doesn't own. I don't imagine him just writing it off.
Melnyk won't be the owner when this arena is actually built. it will be Minot, candian tire, somebody like that
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  #38  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 12:53 PM
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If they choose to build a replacement CTC downtown, or want to encourage the construction of a downtown arena, perhaps they can convert the existing CTC into Melnyk's long-desired casino. Win - Win
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  #39  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 1:18 PM
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The CTC and all its land would probably be worth a chunk of change if sold off for suburban development, if the city changed the zoning to permit it.
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  #40  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 1:47 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
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I think this is our opportunity to create a vibrant area. Would love to see an NHL arena, Casino, Hotel, Condos, Restaurants, Big public Plaza etc... It's a prime location next to downtown, the river, on LRT route and will connect to the new Chaudiere Island development. I also like the idea inspired by Rogers Arena District in Edmonton, and the idea of the Aquarium (like the Ripley's Believe it or Not Aquarium in downtown T.O)

I think the Byward Market/Rideau Centre/University is acting as an vibrant entertainment hub for "Downtown East" from Bank to King Edward. Now we need to create an exciting entertainment hub for "Downtown West" from Bank to Bayview as the west part of downtown is VERY sleepy and dead around Bronson, Bay, Lebreton etc..
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