[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[PoscStudent]

Gerry Colbert has announced he won't seek reelection next year!

[Townie709]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

I did answer you once you must have missed it

The last public review is suppose to be in January then I think its march when the final draft will be released

It will be what the plan is for the (suppose to be) next 5 years and what the zoning will be in all of the city .. like what will be residential low/medium/high density commercial .. mixed ... industrial .. rural... green space .. heritage areas and what that means .. what the height restrictions are and where and general plans for where what kinds of developments should go ... etc etc

My personal opinion is that developers could be watching this closely (like hilton) waiting to see where the council will allow what then they can apply under those rules and not have fear of public backlash or crazy media and disapproval etc because these issues should be clarified in the plan

Thank you! Hopefully they will finally decrease the height restrictions for the west end of downtown.

As for kenmount hill, is that St. John's territory, or mount pearl territory?

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by Townie709

Thank you! Hopefully they will finally decrease the height restrictions for the west end of downtown.

As for kenmount hill, is that St. John's territory, or mount pearl territory?

mostly St. John's Some in Mount Pearl

[statbass]

Originally Posted by Townie709

I shall ask again. What is this almighty municipal plan? what will it consist of? When does it come out? How often is a municipal plan released? Why will it bring lots of proposals?

I have asked these questions before but none have been answered, sorry if they're idiotic questions xD

Here's a link to documentation relating to the City of St. John's municipal plan. I think you'll find all the information you need about the development of the plan, including what's been completed and what's coming up.

http://www.stjohns.ca/cityservices/p...planreview.jsp

[jeddy1989]

Looks like they are still planning on doing the condos on Temperance St.

I came across it on real estate listing here's some pics from it











http://properties.househunting.ca/ho...BRADOR-A1C3J4/

I really hope this does go ahead I like this one and it's good infill

[SignalHillHiker]

The view of Fortis from Water Street. It's going to be spectacular once finished!


Fortis Place from Water Street by SignalHillHiker, on Flickr

[Ayreonaut]

Those condos would really improve Temperance. It's a rather dour little hill there right now.

[Townie709]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

Looks like they are still planning on doing the condos on Temperance St.

I really hope this does go ahead I like this one and it's good infill

Good! I really like this development and was afraid it may have been cancelled. It is a great infill project. Maybe we will se it started next year.

There are a few projects that we haven't heard anything on in the past few months such as the Steele hotel. I really liked that proposal. Maybe it's for the better it's not built. It might be a good location for maybe a condo high rise in the future?

Another one we haven't heard anything on in a long time was the hotel at the bottom of Prescott Street across from the fortis building. I pray that is not built. That hotel looked like a low-budget residential development from the 70s. It looked hideous.
That location would be perfect for a modern, unique midrise building (like the "St. John's Landing" concept depicted below) or even just a nice park!

St. John's Landing concept from harbour drive


From water/prescott street

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by Townie709

Good! I really like this development and was afraid it may have been cancelled. It is a great infill project. Maybe we will se it started next year.

There are a few projects that we haven't heard anything on in the past few months such as the Steele hotel. I really liked that proposal. Maybe it's for the better it's not built. It might be a good location for maybe a condo high rise in the future?

Another one we haven't heard anything on in a long time was the hotel at the bottom of Prescott Street across from the fortis building. I pray that is not built. That hotel looked like a low-budget residential development from the 70s. It looked hideous.
That location would be perfect for a modern, unique midrise building (like the "St. John's Landing" concept) or even just a nice park!

That is deep in the Heritage zone it will never be a modern looking building it will have to be a heritage style building or mainly heritage style (which I agree with .. keeping old looking east and modern west) and for sure it will never be tall (they jumped through those hoops already)... although it is in an ideal place for a landmark building which still can be done with those restrictions

St. John's Landing is a nice looking concept which i really do like but not in that area anymore now that we are developing an idea of an east/west divide

[Townie709]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

That is deep in the Heritage zone it will never be a modern looking building it will have to be a heritage style building or mainly heritage style (which I agree with .. keeping old looking east and modern west) and for sure it will never be tall (they jumped through those hoops already)... although it is in an ideal place for a landmark building which still can be done with those restrictions

St. John's Landing is a nice looking concept which i really do like but not in that area anymore now that we are developing an idea of an east/west divide

I agree with that also, that's why I'm leaning towards a park! Maybe a "St. John's Landing" type building on the Steele site if the hotel has been cancelled.

[SignalHillHiker]

I like the idea of some sort of park as well.

Winnipeg Beach, Manitoba, has the best waterfront I've ever seen. There's a dense, main street facing the water but between it and the beach is a massive, tree-filled, mowed park lined with wooden walking trails, volleyball nets, etc, etc. Then it's the boardwalk and the beach. It is just fantastic, the type of lifestyle and density of pedestrian traffic this creates.

Here's the park:


Winnipeg Beach Boardwalk by Jacques Gauthier, on Flickr

And here's the main street that faces it:


Town of Winnipeg Beach by mrchristian, on Flickr

It's just beautifully planned.

So some sort of downtown park would be great for us. I'd like it to be where Atlantic Place and its parkade once stood.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I like the idea of some sort of park as well.

Winnipeg Beach, Manitoba, has the best waterfront I've ever seen. There's a dense, main street facing the water but between it and the beach is a massive, tree-filled, mowed park lined with wooden walking trails, volleyball nets, etc, etc. Then it's the boardwalk and the beach. It is just fantastic, the type of lifestyle and density of pedestrian traffic this creates.

Here's the park:


Winnipeg Beach Boardwalk by Jacques Gauthier, on Flickr


And here's the main street that faces it:


Town of Winnipeg Beach by mrchristian, on Flickr

It's just beautifully planned.

So some sort of downtown park would be great for us. I'd like it to be where Atlantic Place and its parkade once stood.

I'd prefer a pedestrian shipping street or a pedestrian plaza (where they could have a flea market/farmers market on some days) to be honest .. with trees but still urban (and tapping into the European feel ) however this is such a highly valued peice of land .. that will never be economically viable unless like the city took it over

I have never been to that park in Winnipeg however I am not a fan of that second picture especially .. looks a bit like main street in a middle of nowhere town USA .. however that could just be what Im seeing from the picture again I've never been

[SignalHillHiker]

Ooh - it's Winnipeg Beach, not Winnipeg. Just a tiny little village on the shores of Lake Winnipeg, which is north of the city.

And, yes, prairie architecture tends to be a little Kenmount Road with stucco but in the larger cities, their taller buildings are often nice (i.e. Regina and Calgary).

[jeddy1989]

I get amazed at how dense skylines in prarie cities can be even in cities which are about the same size as St. John's

Regina


Saskatoon


I guess being in a Prarie there isnt much natural visual interest so they create this with the buildings and skylines

[SignalHillHiker]

Yeah, and I particularly love Regina's skyline.

I think it's just that these cities are new, they don't have a lot of heritage restrictions, they grew at a time when the American style of building up was the norm, and so on.

I just wish they were prettier at street level. In the densest downtown streets, it's fine, and lots of residential streets are pretty... but Kenmount Road seems to be the norm for most areas.

Picking Winnipeg because I know it - but check out Pembina Highway, Regent Avenue, and West Porgage in Google Maps... it's just depressing. And compare that to the beautiful Exchange District, which is like a more industrial, taller version of St. John's.

[jeddy1989]

yup I see what you mean ... here it's like Downtown area is right out of Europe and the rest of the city is what normally happens in North America lol!... oh my we love to be unique

[Ayreonaut]

That isn't Saskatoon, it's OKC.

Here's what I see with regards to the heritage issue. There are enough heritage buildings in the core that simply protecting the existing ones will allow the city to retain a unique feel. If there are no heritage buildings on a site, they should be able to build modern. Designing new buildings to 'look heritage' is a terrible idea and rarely if ever turns out nicely. A nice modern building at Water & Harbour Dr. would look quite nice to me.

FWIW, I don't necessarily agree with the all-prairie-cities-are-like-Kenmount thought. Sure, there's Victoria Ave in Regina, Idylwyld and Circle Dr. in Saskatoon, Macleod Tr and many others in Calgary, but there are also great strips in the prairie cities that aren't downtown. Broadway in Saskatoon is wonderful, and the best parts of urban Calgary are outside of the CBD (aside from 8th Ave). Let's also not pretend that Kenmount is the only example of typical ugly N. American development in St. John's either; Torbay, Stavanger, Topsail, etc. St. John's definitely has a unique downtown, and pleasant older neighbourhoods all between downtown and MUN, but outside of that its appearance is pretty typical of North America.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut

That isn't Saskatoon, it's OKC.

Here's what I see with regards to the heritage issue. There are enough heritage buildings in the core that simply protecting the existing ones will allow the city to retain a unique feel. If there are no heritage buildings on a site, they should be able to build modern. Designing new buildings to 'look heritage' is a terrible idea and rarely if ever turns out nicely. A nice modern building at Water & Harbour Dr. would look quite nice to me.

Ops, the site lied to me lol I changed the picture to the actual Saskatoon skyline

I'm all for development however I must disagree I now believe we should keep all modern buildings in one area .. to me it's not about the protection of a single building its the protection of that whole area and now we have a solution to the balance if it is mainly historic style with modern aspects (ex the narrows condos) then thats really nice too just has to keep with the feel.. like even just the facade on street level (and I'm only talking about the east end .. west end go nutz and make them as tall as you can and as modern as possible .. also in all other parts of the city go crazy with the modern buildings)

However I do see what you are saying and I'm open to most things just as long as we see the proposal in context

[Ayreonaut]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

Ops, the site lied to me lol I changed the picture to the actual Saskatoon skyline

Nice choice. Love that river valley.

I'm all for development however I must disagree I now believe we should keep all modern buildings in one area .. to me it's not about the protection of a single building its the protection of that whole area and now we have a solution to the balance if it is mainly historic style with modern aspects (ex the narrows condos) then thats really nice too just has to keep with the feel.. like even just the facade on street level (and I'm only talking about the east end .. west end go nutz and make them as tall as you can and as modern as possible .. also in all other parts of the city go crazy with the modern buildings)

However I do see what you are saying and I'm open to most things just as long as we see the proposal in context

With regards to your last sentence. Perhaps the city could just be extremely strict with what it approves as far as modern developments. For instance, one that I thought worked quite well was that little condo on Harvey Rd. Quite a modern design, but it just worked with the little strip of older buildings that are there. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any action going on down there.

[SignalHillHiker]

I'd prefer to see strict height and heritage restrictions enforced on any buildings in that area as well.

It's a very small area, a uniquely beautiful one, and it is worth keeping up without allowing any taller or inappropriate buildings to detract from the overall atmosphere or, equally importantly, ruin the view.

And we should, over time, try to weed out those inappropriate buildings - like the old Fortis Building, like the TD Building - and replace them with modern buildings that adhere to strict heritage requirements, like Bluedrop. That should be all that's ever allowed again from, say, Scotia Plaza to the Newfoundland Hotel.

In a perfect world, I'd have had a line of towers along the crest of the first hill, where they'd have the biggest impact from every possible vantage point without ruining the view or beauty of old St. John's. But, the west end is gone, we need a place for towers, and it's developing.

So I'm willing to let go any protests I have related to new development anywhere west of 351 Water Street (with a few heritage exceptions, such as the Newman Wine Vaults) - but I'm going to be even stricter about the east end of downtown as a result.

The new Star of the Sea proposal is JUST pushing it... it's just far enough west, and just enough appropriate... that I have no issue with it (besides loving the design).