[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut

Nice choice. Love that river valley.



With regards to your last sentence. Perhaps the city could just be extremely strict with what it approves as far as modern developments. For instance, one that I thought worked quite well was that little condo on Harvey Rd. Quite a modern design, but it just worked with the little strip of older buildings that are there. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any action going on down there.

I agree I liked that one as well.. too bad it seems to have disappeared

[PoscStudent]

Too early for a municipal election thread? Or will one even be needed?

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

It's a very small area, a uniquely beautiful one, and it is worth keeping up without allowing any taller or inappropriate buildings to detract from the overall atmosphere or, equally importantly, ruin the view.


In a perfect world, I'd have had a line of towers along the crest of the first hill, where they'd have the biggest impact from every possible vantage point without ruining the view or beauty of old St. John's. But, the west end is gone, we need a place for towers, and it's developing.

You are absolutely right it is a very small area, infact only Duckworth and Water Street should have height restrictions (and only in the CENTER). With that being said the biggest problem with the heritage preservation is where it is located. If this city had been planned right the economic hub of St. John's would have never been designated heritage.

As for your perfect world synopsis, I would agree only if the towers were TRUE TOWERS and be above 18 storeys and not the Newfoundland Version what a tower is.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

This was just asked by another person:

Q:


Ans:
Fr Mayor Wiseman


Seems like theres an apitite for it but maybe Paradise was always looked at as just subdivisions .. but it seems like at least the mayor is open to it

That was me that asked that question. I am all for high rise condo developments in order to stop the ever increasing sprawl that we are experiencing. I can't fathom why people in Newfoundland are scared of living in a Condo.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by Townie709

Just noticed that your wish might come true for fortis place at least. If you look at the render you can notice flood lights pointing up the side of the building. I wonder if 351 will be flood lit. They could easily light up the upper office portion from the roof of the parking garage but if not, at least Fortis will stand out at night!

You may have already noticed this but thought I would point it out anyway!






Thanks! I would say that project will really pick up steam starting next week when the crane goes in. Lets hope it doesnt look too bad!

Now if we could only get 7 or 8 more of these built downtown it would start to look much better than what we currently have.

[Arrakis]

This would have been a beautiful addition to the St. John's Waterfront if it had been greenlighted. Too bad it wasn't. That gravel pit looks so much nicer there now with the graffiti and litter.

Originally Posted by Townie709

Good! I really like this development and was afraid it may have been cancelled. It is a great infill project. Maybe we will se it started next year.

There are a few projects that we haven't heard anything on in the past few months such as the Steele hotel. I really liked that proposal. Maybe it's for the better it's not built. It might be a good location for maybe a condo high rise in the future?

Another one we haven't heard anything on in a long time was the hotel at the bottom of Prescott Street across from the fortis building. I pray that is not built. That hotel looked like a low-budget residential development from the 70s. It looked hideous.
That location would be perfect for a modern, unique midrise building (like the "St. John's Landing" concept depicted below) or even just a nice park!

St. John's Landing concept from harbour drive


From water/prescott street

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by Arrakis

This would have been a beautiful addition to the St. John's Waterfront if it had been greenlighted. Too bad it wasn't. That gravel pit looks so much nicer there now with the graffiti and litter.

100% agree with you. That would have looked perfect next to the Fortis Building, especially with the city being so hell bent on the Cruise Ship Industry.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut

Let's also not pretend that Kenmount is the only example of typical ugly N. American development in St. John's either; Torbay, Stavanger, Topsail, etc. St. John's definitely has a unique downtown, and pleasant older neighbourhoods all between downtown and MUN, but outside of that its appearance is pretty typical of North America.

Oh, I definitely agree with that.

(Long pause. New thought, not a continuation or rebuttal):

I find areas like Kenmount Road are a little more tolerable in areas with varying topography. Kenmount Road, with a few turns and hills, annoys me less than a completely straight, flat version. There's still some visual interest because you can see more than just what's directly in front of you. But it's still ugly.

*****

As for the St. John's Landing proposal in particular... I'm torn. That building is better than the empty mess of a lot that exists, clearly.

It's even an attractive building. I'd give it 8/10 as is, and 8.5/10 if they'd get rid of that pedway at the top.

It abstractly honours our heritage - like the new Star of the Sea proposal, like The Rooms.

But I'm just not sure about the location.

If it was proposed to replace the Atlantic Place parkade - **** heritage requirements, do it, done.

But an empty lot in old town...

Every building like this we allow in the core area we want to preserve chips away at what we have. We could end up like Halifax if we're not careful.

And I really don't want us to erect a harbourfront wall of buildings that blocks views of/from old St. John's. It's already a little sad to look up from Southside Road at Atlantic Place.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Every building like this we allow in the core area we want to preserve chips away at what we have. We could end up like Halifax if we're not careful.

You have no worries of us ending up like Halifax, as long as we have O'Leary, Duff, Malone and Peg Norman in the fight to preserve the look and feel, TRUST ME, we will never be like Halifax.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

You have no worries of us ending up like Halifax, as long as we have O'Leary, Duff, Malone and Peg Norman in the fight to preserve the look and feel, TRUST ME, we will never be like Halifax.

Though I do not generally agree with how extreme those people are .. I am very happy that we will not end up like Halifax! Halifax could be any other North American city on the Eastern Seaboard. Sure it has some things that make it just unique enough to differentiate it from the others just like the others do also .. but nothing like we have with the mixture of geography, culture, Architecture, Economy, and now we are on the right track in discovering how to embrace modernity to add to the mix

I am however happy that we are headed in the right direction when it comes to west end DT .. we have alot of potential and bit by bit we are getting there (Rome wasn't built in a day )

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

Though I do not generally agree with how extreme those people are .. I am very happy that we will not end up like Halifax! Halifax could be any other North American city on the Eastern Seaboard. Sure it has some things that make it just unique enough to differentiate it from the others just like the others do also .. but nothing like we have with the mixture of geography, culture, Architecture, Economy, and now we are on the right track in discovering how to embrace modernity to add to the mix

I am however happy that we are headed in the right direction when it comes to west end DT .. we have alot of potential and bit by bit we are getting there (Rome wasn't built in a day )

While I agree with what you are saying in principal, however it does concern me that according to an earlier post we will only have approx 32k increase in population between now and 2035 (yes I know that could change 1000 times over), and I can't help to feel that a major contributing factor is the very stringent heritage guidelines in place for our "economic centre", coupled with "baby-boomers" retiring back home.

When you look at a place at Halifax for example almost 100k extra in the same time frame, you can almost get a feeling and a sense that the St. John's CMA is fast approaching a "Retirement Village" status.

[SignalHillHiker]

Good point.

I'd like to think we've been there before, we'll be there again. There's not much St. John's hasn't already survived. And it really won't matter if we spend a generation or two dominated by the elderly, ha! It's the direction much of the world is going, especially in Japan, China, western Europe, North America.

[SignalHillHiker]

And renders of that Harvey proposal? I can't find any and I'm curious.

The topography there, right beside the Kirk where that metal staircase goes up, is brilliant for something interesting.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

While I agree with what you are saying in principal, however it does concern me that according to an earlier post we will only have approx 32k increase in population between now and 2035 (yes I know that could change 1000 times over), and I can't help to feel that a major contributing factor is the very stringent heritage guidelines in place for our "economic centre", coupled with "baby-boomers" retiring back home.

When you look at a place at Halifax for example almost 100k extra in the same time frame, you can almost get a feeling and a sense that the St. John's CMA is fast approaching a "Retirement Village" status.

We've dicussed those population predictions before .. they cannot be accurate .. it is already 5k higher than predicted for 2010, and they obviously just did a spot growth and brought that into the future .. many things affect population growth and I cannot see Halifax expanding like crazy like that .. based on what? a ship building contract? (I know there are other things related to it's positioning).. however I completely understand where you are coming from and I would have completely agreed with you maybe 2 years ago however we have come a long way and it's in motion .. we have to be positive about it or noone will change anything

WE need to be proactive .. the ball is now moving and we just need to keep our heads held high and discuss these things that can be done to change things for the better and things WILL change .. I mean who would have thought 10 years ago that we would even be at the point we are today? .. and there are so many things on the horizon and we now have a better understanding of how we should develop and everyone is finally talking about it. When we have this new municipal plan or even an accepted area for highrises and other such things to go then things will move on it more (I'll be it it's been a bit of a long road lol) but at least we have a general vision as a whole

again the key is to stay positive about things because good things ARE happening and are to come we just need to embrace them and even the existance of this forum is helping even if it's a little bit


Also to address your "retirement village" comment .. there was something released not long ago showing that the median age of St. John's is actually lower than the national average. and as Signal pointed out this is a phenomenon happening all across the developed world

[jeddy1989]

This is a little something about the projects in the province which highlights the potential which exists in the capital and the province in the future

...The economy of Canada’s most eastern province shows no signs of reversing that forward momentum. When the Atlantic Provinces Economic Council (APEC) – a non-partisan think tank – recently released its Major Project Inventory 2012, it showed that Newfoundland and Labrador, with 48 per cent of the total major project inventory, is well ahead of the rest of the Atlantic region in terms of major, or “mega” project development. APEC identified 111 projects worth a total of $40.1 billion that are either ongoing or scheduled to take place in the province – an 11 per cent increase over 2011....

http://www.atlanticbusinessmagazine....bmmega-project

There are projects just being discovered and opportunities not yet fully explored as well such as us as the gateway to the artic etc (I attended a conference about this) Also there are huge oil reserves on the west coast which they are developing the technology to extract as well as was highlighted in a conference I attended with my job that there is a development that has to do with minerals in labrador which will provide over 70 years of profitable production ... and that's just one of the projects happening ... so hold on to your hats ladies and gentlemen we have just gotten on the ride .. and now that the city is sorting out it's zoning .. In my opinion it's all just beguining

[SignalHillHiker]

Fingers crossed.

[Ayreonaut]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

And renders of that Harvey proposal? I can't find any and I'm curious.

The topography there, right beside the Kirk where that metal staircase goes up, is brilliant for something interesting.

Slightly better than a napkin drawing, but I think it's all there was.



I think the massing was great. About the same height as the neighbouring buildings. It would only block the view from the RNC HQ, and it's only a view of the Irving tanks across the harbour. I would prefer to see a small retail bay as well, but I think it was all residential. I wonder how it would have looked from Longs Hill.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut

Slightly better than a napkin drawing, but I think it's all there was.



I think the massing was great. About the same height as the neighbouring buildings. It would only block the view from the RNC HQ, and it's only a view of the Irving tanks across the harbour. I would prefer to see a small retail bay as well, but I think it was all residential. I wonder how it would have looked from Longs Hill.

The proposal made sense .. It was modern (could be updated maybe with a touch of star of the sea architecture) and most importantly it was in scale and near other buildings with a modern nod to them (Fire hall, The rooms, RNC headquarters)

[SignalHillHiker]

Oh, I thought we were talking about the empty lot beside the Kirk.

But this is the spot:


Harvey Road by SignalHillHiker, on Flickr

Yeah, something modern there wouldn't hurt. There's a ****ing Tim Horton's across the street, ha! Great place for a Bluedrop-style building as well.

[Townie709]

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut

Slightly better than a napkin drawing, but I think it's all there was.

Yeah, that's a nice little infill project. It looks modern, but doesn't stand out from the buildings around it. When was this proposed??