Let's Talk Flags and Symbols

[kwoldtimer]

I only buy beer at the LCBO so even though I also hate the Beer Store and used to think I wanted it gone, I now want to wait and see how much money the Govt of Ontario can squeeze from this foreign-owned monopoly. If they pay enough, perhaps they can continue to exist.

[LeftCoaster]

I avoid the beer store like the plague.

Would much rather pay the extra couple bucks at the LCBO to have more choice and not enter a store that smells like the dumpster of a dive bar.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I did not know that! Maybe the future Quebec will have its own Eva Peron!

Funny you should mention that. You know, I must confess to sometimes thinking that Quebec has some traits in common with Latin America. It's how two or more of the multiple realms of society (politics, entertainment, religion, journalism, business, sports, etc.) can often join together and converge into an overall dramatic narrative.

Not sure I am explaining it well here, though...

[1overcosc]

Hate the flag of Ontario with the passion of a billion burning suns. It says literally nothing about Ontario. When you compare it to the flags of Quebec or Nova Scotia it's just pathetic.

I think Ontario should host a flag design competition like the federal government did fifty years ago. Ideally, Wynne would make the announcement of this on the 50th anniversary of the Maple Leaf flag next year.

[vaportrail]

Originally Posted by Acajack

From what I can read, God keep our land was added around 1980. It wasn't in the Weir English lyrics from the early 1900s. Is this correct? If so it would be around the time of the patriation of the Constitution (including the supremacy of God thingy).

The French lyrics are basically unchanged from the late 1800s.

That "God" was added to the anthem about that time still amazes me. I haven't publicly sung the anthem since.

I was further disappointed that Roger Doucet's modified version was not adopted. I don't recall the exact change he implemented at Habs' games but my recollection is that it nicely replaced some portion of the repetitive lines of the previous version.

Lame on-topic attempt: What does Stats Canada report as the percentage of Canadians refusing to incorporate a deity reference in the anthem?

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Hate the flag of Ontario with the passion of a billion burning suns. It says literally nothing about Ontario. When you compare it to the flags of Quebec or Nova Scotia it's just pathetic.

I think Ontario should host a flag design competition like the federal government did fifty years ago. Ideally, Wynne would make the announcement of this on the 50th anniversary of the Maple Leaf flag next year.

Yes, yes and yes! I already designed a couple different flags of what I would like it changed to, pretty good ones if i don't say so myself When things settle down with the transit agenda, I was going to communicate with my local minister and premier to get a flag design contest and vote on the provincial agenda the way Toronto did. Right now I have a Toronto flag and Canada flag at the cottage but would love to have an Ontario flag some day!

[Gerrard]

Dude, the Ontario flag has trilliums man

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Gerrard

Dude, the Ontario flag has trilliums man

I suppose the idea was to get rid of the Union Jack and its crosses (erasing British and religious symbolism in the process) and enhancing the trillium(s) and the maple leaf(ves) which are viewed as more neutral symbols.

Not that it's any of my business as a non-Ontarian.

[1overcosc]

It's more that the flag of Ontario reflects a bygone era--the ever-British Presbyterian Ontario the Good of old. It's not appropriate at all for what Ontario society is now.

[MolsonExport]

I substitute "Glob, keep our land..."



professionalmoron

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I suppose the idea was to get rid of the Union Jack and its crosses (erasing British and religious symbolism in the process) and enhancing the trillium(s) and the maple leaf(ves) which are viewed as more neutral symbols.

Not that it's any of my business as a non-Ontarian.

So long as they are not the Toronto Maple Leaves.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

So long as they are not the Toronto Maple Leaves.

How about a blue maple leaf on a new Ontario flag?

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's more that the flag of Ontario reflects a bygone era--the ever-British Presbyterian Ontario the Good of old. It's not appropriate at all for what Ontario society is now.

does one change their flag every time the society changes? if so, how does the symbol accrue any continuity? how does it refer to the whole rather than a part?

the more i think about it, the more i realize ontario went through a quiet revolution of its own in the 1960s-1990s. a very quiet one, actually, but one in which it made a very determined mental break from its past.

you hear things about the "bad old british toronto the good" and people almost sound like romanians referring to the ceaucescu days. people talk disparagingly of their pasts after revolutions.

i can't help but think that, as societies go, it was a good place and you should be proud of it.

[MolsonExport]

^yeah, but you couldn't get served a beer on a sunday, or so I was told. That is not the hallmark of a good society.

[Xelebes]

Toronto the Good still exists. You can hear it in the music. Turn on some Drake, Rush, Metric or Austra.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

does one change their flag every time the society changes? if so, how does the symbol accrue any continuity? how does it refer to the whole rather than a part?

the more i think about it, the more i realize ontario went through a quiet revolution of its own in the 1960s-1990s. a very quiet one, actually, but one in which it made a very determined mental break from its past.

you hear things about the "bad old british toronto the good" and people almost sound like romanians referring to the ceaucescu days. people talk disparagingly of their pasts after revolutions.

i can't help but think that, as societies go, it was a good place and you should be proud of it.

Hear, hear!

Though it's true that that's not the prettiest of flags.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

does one change their flag every time the society changes? if so, how does the symbol accrue any continuity? how does it refer to the whole rather than a part?

the more i think about it, the more i realize ontario went through a quiet revolution of its own in the 1960s-1990s. a very quiet one, actually, but one in which it made a very determined mental break from its past.

you hear things about the "bad old british toronto the good" and people almost sound like romanians referring to the ceaucescu days. people talk disparagingly of their pasts after revolutions.

i can't help but think that, as societies go, it was a good place and you should be proud of it.

"As societies go...", that's setting the bar a little low, no? I think it's okay to strive for better and to lift our ambitions higher. Nobody is calling the old Ontario bad, but I've never met anyone (even anyone born here over the age of 60) who'd call the old Ontario more interesting and culturally deep (especially relatively speaking) and I've discussed Ontario history with many of them. Ontario was full of old characters but its soul was still young, it's only now maturing into adulthood. I'd rather have a flag drawn by an adult (the new Ontario) than one by a toddler (the old Ontario). Toronto is the best example of that, in most cities the old people pine for the good old days, here the old people are dismissive of the uptight and boring old days and welcome the new dynamism. What everyone wants is for this province to be a winner, both young and old, winners never settle for the status quo.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

does one change their flag every time the society changes? if so, how does the symbol accrue any continuity? how does it refer to the whole rather than a part?

the more i think about it, the more i realize ontario went through a quiet revolution of its own in the 1960s-1990s. a very quiet one, actually, but one in which it made a very determined mental break from its past.

you hear things about the "bad old british toronto the good" and people almost sound like romanians referring to the ceaucescu days. people talk disparagingly of their pasts after revolutions.

i can't help but think that, as societies go, it was a good place and you should be proud of it.

Very much this.

Seriously one of the better most relavent posts I've read on this site.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

"As societies go...", that's setting the bar a little low, no? I think it's okay to strive for better and to lift our ambitions higher. Nobody is calling the old Ontario bad, but I've never met anyone (even anyone born here over the age of 60) who'd call the old Ontario more interesting and culturally deep (especially relatively speaking) and I've discussed Ontario history with many of them. Ontario was full of old characters but its soul was still young, it's only now maturing into adulthood. I'd rather have a flag drawn by an adult (the new Ontario) than one by a toddler (the old Ontario). Toronto is the best example of that, in most cities the old people pine for the good old days, here the old people are dismissive of the uptight and boring old days and welcome the new dynamism. What everyone wants is for this province to be a winner, both young and old, winners never settle for the status quo.

Any thought at all given to building on the successes of the past as you try and improve things for the future?

I mean, none of the people who have moved to Ontario over the past 50 years moved onto barren, uninhabited land. I suppose there was actually something good and pre-existing that drew them there, no?

[mistercorporate]

In reading the responses from Ontarians vs those from the ROC , one might be led to believe that Ontario is indeed a 'distinct society'