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  #501  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2007, 6:26 AM
rialb rialb is offline
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Hoist is down now, I think the Building looks so skinny now.
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  #502  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2007, 6:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Drmyeyes View Post
O.K., he donates surface and what is it? 3' of below surface to the city for the park to the city that now owns it, yet vents and stair/elevator, I'm not sure which, for the garage below that Moyer owns, surfaces within the public park. I suppose beggars can't be choosy, but it's very interesting that arrangements for more subtly provided restrooms possibly using space in Moyer's garage, can't be considered through some kind of agreement with Moyer, especially considering that equipment serving his parking facility below uses some of the public park space. I would think he might heartily support such an idea.

As for the restaurant/restroom pair obligation, I'm vague on that really, because I never got in on what caliber restaurant is going to be there. They may even still be deciding about that to some extent. A person named Carol mentioned the carts at the presentation. Really, carts alone might be sufficient, certainly more flexible than a permanent restaurant. It seems unfortunate that the restaurant part is so important that it would dictate this part of PB5's design.

I haven't written up my comment form yet, but I have one.
Definitely get your comments in.

Regarding the stair/elevator/vent shafts, those are necessary for the functioning of the garage below and were placed before the surface rights were transferred to the city. Obviously, Moyer (TMT) reserved the rights to use those vertical penetrations, otherwise he wouldn't be able to operate the garage. If the city really felt that they wanted below grade restrooms, they could negotiate to lease space within the garage. I don't think TMT would be opposed to having square footage within the garage permanently leased.

Whenever you have a sit-down restaurant with table service, restrooms are required by code. The idea for this park is to have a restaurant that attracts shoppers, residents and business people so there's always activity there. Carts alone would not have the same round-the-clock appeal. Most people don't have brunch, a business lunch, afternoon tea or dinner at a cart. The newsstand and flower stand both generate high volume pedestrian activity as well.

The Carol you met was Carol Mayer-Reed, the principal of Mayer/Reed, one of the landscape architects.
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  #503  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2007, 6:27 AM
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Dougall5505 Dougall5505 is offline
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i can't believe no one posted these pictures and article yet. i guess its cuz mark didn't show up today







http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...430.xml&coll=7
Sucked into a black hole
Passers-by stop to look 60 feet down into a subterranean world filled with rumbling machines
Friday, March 02, 2007
LARRY BINGHAM
A s soon as Chris Price checked in to the Portland Paramount Hotel earlier this week, he had to check out the hole.

Price, a salesman, blew an hour perusing the pit, home to a future underground parking garage and city park downtown at Southwest Taylor and Park streets. And, judging by the scores of gawkers who stop at any of the half-dozen construction holes downtown, Price isn't the only urbanite who hears the subterranean siren song.

Outside the Fox Tower one afternoon, a young couple holding hands paused to stare at the same hole. A mother dragged her toddler to the fence. Even fast-walking passers-by rapt in cell phone conversations stole a glance.
Below them six stories -- or roughly 60 feet below grade -- the ground looked like chocolate ice cream, the rain puddles looked like small lakes and the rumbling machines scooping up coffee-colored stones looked like large Tonka trucks.

The mystery of what's down there drew retiree Jake Rens, who was headed for a matinee at the Regal Cinemas when he stopped twice. "I wonder if they ever find anything archaeologically interesting in these holes," he said.

Big holes, it seem, raise compelling questions.

How did they get that equipment down there?

What did they do with all that dirt?

Is that where they plant us in the end?

Price, the salesman, scoped the 32,000-square-foot excavation from every corner and determined which worker was in charge -- the man with the blueprints. He knew enough to know what the beeping dump truck backing up outside the Guild Theatre carried.

Gravel tumbled from the bed of the truck into the hole like a waterfall. The sound of the crashing rocks drew more onlookers.

The impulse to stare at a big hole in the ground may come from that part of the brain that makes us rubberneck at car wrecks and perk up when we overhear an argument in a restaurant.

"They stare when people are working, and they stare when there's no one down there," said Elizabeth Neal, assistant manager at the Flying Elephants deli. She has seen people at the fence every day since digging started.

"I'm not sure what fascinates them," she said. "But something does."

Maybe it's the fact that city dwellers, eyes accustomed to looking up toward high rises, relish a rare opportunity to look down.

Price thinks the urge is simpler. The hole reminded him of playing in the dirt as a kid.

Larry Bingham: 503-221-8262; larrybingham@news.oregonian.com
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  #504  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2007, 6:40 AM
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Sweet...when is the park west tower supposed to get started?
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  #505  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2007, 7:11 AM
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Sweet...when is the park west tower supposed to get started?
The goal is to break ground in the Fall, probably late Fall. I'm not sure what's happening with the existing tenants (Mercantile, VC, Zell Bros).
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  #506  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2007, 9:08 PM
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They specifically didn't want anything TOO modern because they didn't want it to look like it was merely an extension of the Fox Tower. They wanted it to be distinct.
That is a lame excuse that I don't buy into. This is going to be an extension of the Fox and the new tower to the north and the Paramount.


Actually I will use an example on why this is a load of crap reason why not to go modern. The Pioneer Square was designed with its neighbors in mind. It makes references back to the eras of terra cotta and columns that are on neighboring buildings. In one way or another, the whole square seems to be an extension of the building around them. That is the idea of a square to be an extension of the surrounding buildings.

Hell that is what every piazza in Europe is like, an extension of the building around them.


So for the designers to say something like that is a great example of how to talk out a butt and to give an excuse to designing badly.
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  #507  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2007, 10:18 PM
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^good point i would like a modern park to contrast with pioneer
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  #508  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2007, 1:17 AM
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Some SoWa with Block 27, Block 46, Block 49, Mirabella and the Alexan. I wasn't 100% on the locations, so let me know if i missed one.




A general shot showing SoWa, downtown and the Pearl


Just downtown and Pearl
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  #509  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2007, 1:21 AM
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The Pearl as GoogleEarth had it, missing a number of finished buildings like the Henry, Elizabeth, Park Place, and at least four more


Filled in with the missing buildings, u/c and proposed/approved


Other Pearl shots


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  #510  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2007, 2:03 AM
bvpcvm bvpcvm is offline
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oh wow..... you SO rock!
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  #511  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2007, 8:15 AM
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Being distinct doesn't mean it won't relate to its surrounding. I personally don't think the sleekness of the Fox Tower would make for a very warm and inviting park, so I'm glad they're not trying to match that. And you don't have to go "modern" (a very nebulous term) to have good design, likewise, not everything "modern" looks good.

The 10th and Yamhill garage is "modern".
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  #512  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2007, 8:19 AM
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^good point i would like a modern park to contrast with pioneer
Pioneer Courthouse Square IS modern, for 1984, when it was completed.
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  #513  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2007, 10:01 AM
Drmyeyes Drmyeyes is offline
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I'm not really complaining, but Laurie Olin has some unusual ideas. I wouldn't say they're modern. Maybe a bit eccentric. They're still deciding on the brick pattern for the plaza surface, but he showed a few slides for examples, and he mentioned indian basket weaves. Sounds kind of busy to me, but there are greater concerns, so I'm not worrying about things like the brick pattern.

The canopy is a bit odd too, mostly in terms of the underside. A bit hard to tell from the computer generation at the presentation, but it looked kind of like deep criss-crossed framing. Again, not enough of a big deal to worry about, but leaves me wondering where an idea like that comes from. Guess that's the point of having a big-time landscape architect do the design. Something new.

The restaurant component seems like it has a bit of that John Yeon thing going on if that's your idea of modern.

I suppose the really modern thing with this design is how it uses runoff water from the restaurant in the water feature. That green design thing y'know.

Yeah, I think they should have tried something really modern. I still like that rocket ship building in Dubai that Daman despised. That's what we could have really used. Not an actual building, but an observation tower, walk through legs at each corner of the square coming together in the center to rise up as high as the city would allow. Space Needle theft. You could ride up the legs in elevator cars like in the arch in St. Louis, to an observation deck, everything silvery like the tram cabins. From the top, they could have contests dropping water balloons into the water feature down below. 10 million should be able to do it. Great fun.

I did get my comment form in. Yes, I'm sure I'll be on their most popular list now.
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  #514  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2007, 10:58 AM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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Pioneer Courthouse Square IS modern, for 1984, when it was completed.
No, it's PoMo. Modernism debuted in the early part of the 20th century, with such names as Frank Lloyd Wright, Le Corbusier, and Louis Kahn (to name but a few).

Today we should probably be using the term "contemporary" for current design... within that falls a few designations, including 'high-tech,' minimalism, regionalism, and many others. Luckily PoMo has pretty much been killed, except for its application in older tacky suburban shopping centers.
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  #515  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2007, 2:34 PM
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Yes, I meant modern for 1984, which at the time meant PostModern. The Portland Bldg falls in that category too. Thankfully (and ironically), Portland didn't boom during that period or we'd have a lot more PoMo here. I agree that 'contemporary' is a better term.
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  #516  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2007, 5:15 PM
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^ No kidding, this makes my day.
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  #517  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2007, 8:03 PM
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what would it take to get you to export your .kmz file and let us all download it?
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  #518  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2007, 8:50 PM
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"modern" was the first word that came to mind, but it seems you guys got my point.

What I am trying to point out is things like Seattle's Sculpture Park would fall under "contemporary." It would be nice to see this city use its city porjects to show off how good we are at architecture instead of taking the weaker road.

This park is going to be the center of attention for several buildings that face it, include the renovation that is going on at the Theater building, the possible removal of the garage and replaced with a new tower, and the new tower that will happen to the north.

This city gets described as being very European for an American city, it would be nice if we started to act that way in our architecture too.
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  #519  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2007, 8:55 PM
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This city gets described as being very European for an American city, it would be nice if we started to act that way in our architecture too.
Indeed...
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  #520  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2007, 10:13 PM
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wow thanks for all your effort!
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