Atlantic Highways Thread

[LiamCarroll]

(I got locked out of my old account)

I was talking about Future traffic volumes, not necessarily current ones. I saw the grading at the 102/104 trumpet on google earth and just assumed it was a previous configuration that they destroyed because the imagery maxes out at 2007. As for the airport intersection, it would be hell if that were still in olace. the 102 used to run through shubie before they bypassed it in the 70s, as you can see from the oddly placed interchange between the Trunk 2 and the 224.
Was the 102 twinned in most places when it opened?

[LiamCarroll]

I've been having trouble designing this one because of its unfortunate location, squeezed in a narrow valley between four hills... but this is a rough idea of what I have so far

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by LiamCarroll

...…….the 102 used to run through shubie before they bypassed it in the 70s, as you can see from the oddly placed interchange between the Trunk 2 and the 224.
Was the 102 twinned in most places when it opened?

Some '102' History:

The initial segment of highways that would become the '102' were built as 'Super-2's'...….2-lane controlled/limited access highways. These segments included the 'Bicentennial Drive' from Bayers Road to Fall River/Waverly and the Airport Access Road from near the Inn-on-the-Lake' to Enfield built in 1960 to reach the new International Airport under construction at Kelly Lake.

There was also the original Stewiacke-Shubenacadie By-Pass where an early interchange was constructed that's still in use today:

https://goo.gl/maps/MznPZryu9F32

In the late '60s a two-lane Super-2 opened from an interchange with the Trans Canada at Truro to the north end of the original Stewiacke-Shubenacadie By-Pass...….then from the south end of the By-Pass to a junction with the Airport Access Road at Enfield.

You can still see a short section of Super-2 where it connected to the north end of the original by-pass at Stewiacke: (straight of highway passing Logan Drilling)

https://goo.gl/maps/paQSy7KPJZG2

Around this time (1968-69) the Super-2 controlled/limited access highways were designated the 100-Series Highways.....101, 102, 103, 104 etc.

In the mid '70s another Stewiacke-Shubenacadie By-Pass was constructed and the highway was twinned.

[LiamCarroll]

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

Some '102' History:

The initial segment of highways that would become the '102' were built as 'Super-2's'...….2-lane controlled/limited access highways. These segments included the 'Bicentennial Drive' from Bayers Road to Fall River/Waverly and the Airport Access Road from near the Inn-on-the-Lake' to Enfield built in 1960 to reach the new International Airport under construction at Kelly Lake.

There was also the original Stewiacke-Shubenacadie By-Pass where an early interchange was constructed that's still in use today:

https://goo.gl/maps/MznPZryu9F32

In the late '60s a two-lane Super-2 opened from an interchange with the Trans Canada at Truro to the north end of the original Stewiacke-Shubenacadie By-Pass...….then from the south end of the By-Pass to a junction with the Airport Access Road at Enfield.

You can still see a short section of Super-2 where it connected to the north end of the original by-pass at Stewiacke: (straight of highway passing Logan Drilling)

https://goo.gl/maps/paQSy7KPJZG2

Around this time (1968-69) the Super-2 controlled/limited access highways were designated the 100-Series Highways.....101, 102, 103, 104 etc.

In the mid '70s another Stewiacke-Shubenacadie By-Pass was constructed and the highway was twinned.

Oh that's neat. I saw some ripped up roadbeds along the highway the other day near Stewiake, defiantly it.
Where was the junction at the inn on the lake? where the overpass is now?

[Ire Narissis]

That spaghetti junction would require at least 5 new overpass structures; I don't think you'd ever see a Maritime province go quite so overboard on a single interchange.

[LiamCarroll]

Originally Posted by Ire Narissis

That spaghetti junction would require at least 5 new overpass structures; I don't think you'd ever see a Maritime province go quite so overboard on a single interchange.

True that's a disadvantage about living in a poor province

[Ire Narissis]

Alright, I was distracted thinking about this all morning and couldn't get any work done, so I sat down and made my own (very, very rough) fantasy interchange concept:



This design diverts the main traffic lanes of route 102 through just 2 new structures and leverages the existing 101 overpass for ramps, while allowing all 24 possible traffic movements with no weaving at any point (though there are some unusual merges and a number of the merge lanes would have to be expanded or realigned from how they're shown; again, it's a very rough concept).

Biggest drawback that stands out to me is the really tight radius of the northwest loop, though that could be solved if the adjacent land is able to be appropriated and the building and access roads removed, allowing the interchange to expand a little further in that direction.

Anyway, it's a completely off-the-wall, unconventional, pie-in-the-sky interchange design but at least now I have the monkey off my back.

[LiamCarroll]

Originally Posted by Ire Narissis

Alright, I was distracted thinking about this all morning and couldn't get any work done, so I sat down and made my own (very, very rough) fantasy interchange concept:



This design diverts the main traffic lanes of route 102 through just 2 new structures and leverages the existing 101 overpass for ramps, while allowing all 24 possible traffic movements with no weaving at any point (though there are some unusual merges and a number of the merge lanes would have to be expanded or realigned from how they're shown; again, it's a very rough concept).

Biggest drawback that stands out to me is the really tight radius of the northwest loop, though that could be solved if the adjacent land is able to be appropriated and the building and access roads removed, allowing the interchange to expand a little further in that direction.

Anyway, it's a completely off-the-wall, unconventional, pie-in-the-sky interchange design but at least now I have the monkey off my back.

Just Beautiful. Almost like 2 trumpet interchanges opposite to one another. Way more practical than mine. (Then again im 14)
Not a huge amount of traffic in the northwest loop anyway so I wouldn't worry about it. I wish our province could design interchanges like that
That's why my goal is to become a transport engineer, if this forum still exists I'll take suggestions

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by LiamCarroll

Oh that's neat. I saw some ripped up roadbeds along the highway the other day near Stewiake, defiantly it.
Where was the junction at the inn on the lake? where the overpass is now?

The 1960-61 NS Provincial Highway Map shows the ‘Airport Access Road’ with an intersection (and I assume at grade) with Trunk 2 where the 102/2 Interchange is today near the Inn on the Lake.

On the Enfield end…..it shows an at grade intersection with Trunk 2.

A 1963 Topo Map and updated to ’69 now shows an Interchange next to the Inn on the Lake (single 2-lane overpass) over Trunk 2 and the Airport Road/Bicentennial continuing onto Bedford (today’s 102 northbound lanes)

On the Enfield end…..the Airport Rd swung onto the Trunk 2 alignment to continue on in front of where the Irving Big Stop is today....but still no Interchange or highway continuing north behind the Big Stop as 102 does today.

[PEI highway guy]

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

The 1960-61 NS Provincial Highway Map shows the ‘Airport Access Road’ with an intersection (and I assume at grade) with Trunk 2 where the 102/2 Interchange is today near the Inn on the Lake.

On the Enfield end…..it shows an at grade intersection with Trunk 2.

A 1963 Topo Map and updated to ’69 now shows an Interchange next to the Inn on the Lake (single 2-lane overpass) over Trunk 2 and the Airport Road/Bicentennial continuing onto Bedford (today’s 102 northbound lanes)

On the Enfield end…..the Airport Rd swung onto the Trunk 2 alignment to continue on in front of where the Irving Big Stop is today....but still no Interchange or highway continuing north behind the Big Stop as 102 does today.

My mother once told me Moncton to Halifax was a 5 hr trip back in 1960, now I know why. WE may complain, but Highways have come a long ways in 50 years in this region.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by PEI highway guy

My mother once told me Moncton to Halifax was a 5 hr trip back in 1960, now I know why. WE may complain, but Highways have come a long ways in 50 years in this region.

Yup….looking at that 1960-61 NS Highway Map I mention above….at Amherst you would take Trunk 2 through Springhill, Parrsboro, Five Islands, Great Village then into Truro and onto Halifax. You also had the option of Trunk 4 from Springhill to Oxford and through the Wentworth Valley to Truro but portions of that route were still gravel.

>>>>>>>>

Driving from Antigonish to New Glasgow….if I’m not in a rush I’ll take old #4 and it still has a couple of single-lane bridges. Takes about a hour vs 35 min on the 104. So back in the day before the TCH opened around ‘67/68….. if you were continuing onto Truro from New Glasgow….add another hour for the twists and turns going up over Mt. Thom on old #4. Then at least 2 hours from Truro to Halifax…slowing down to pass through all the little villages: Stewicke, Shubenacadie, Waverly, etc….then long Bedford Basin into the city.

I’m guessing Antigonish to Halifax about 4 hrs then vs a little over 2 hrs today.

[LiamCarroll]

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

Yup….looking at that 1960-61 NS Highway Map I mention above….at Amherst you would take Trunk 2 through Springhill, Parrsboro, Five Islands, Great Village then into Truro and onto Halifax. You also had the option of Trunk 4 from Springhill to Oxford and through the Wentworth Valley to Truro but portions of that route were still gravel.

>>>>>>>>

Driving from Antigonish to New Glasgow….if I’m not in a rush I’ll take old #4 and it still has a couple of single-lane bridges. Takes about a hour vs 35 min on the 104. So back in the day before the TCH opened around ‘67/68….. if you were continuing onto Truro from New Glasgow….add another hour for the twists and turns going up over Mt. Thom on old #4. Then at least 2 hours from Truro to Halifax…slowing down to pass through all the little villages: Stewicke, Shubenacadie, Waverly, etc….then long Bedford Basin into the city.

I’m guessing Antigonish to Halifax about 4 hrs then vs a little over 2 hrs today.

4 hours seems right. My girlfriend's parents drive awfully fast and they get to Antigonish in 2 hours vs 3 and a half when they grew up. By the way Have you guys heard about the Barneys River bypass??

[ILoveHalifax]

1966/ 1967 I went to school in Moncton and would on occasion come to Halifax on a weekend to visit my grandparents - yes at least 4 to 5 hours. I can remember being on Hwy 2 in Elmsdale stop and go waiting to get to where we could get onto Bicentennial at the Elmsdale bridge over what eventually became 102 when it opened some years later.

[LiamCarroll]

I feel like I've missed out on watching the roads develop in Nova Scotia because the majority of them were already twinned when I was born in 2004, however the Annapolis Valley has come a long way

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by LiamCarroll

I feel like I've missed out on watching the roads develop in Nova Scotia because the majority of them were already twinned when I was born in 2004, however the Annapolis Valley has come a long way

You’ll probably get to see a lot more twinning over the next few years if all these go ahead…

https://novascotia.ca/twinning/docs/...esentation.pdf

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...tion-1.3948597

When announced a couple of years ago they were intended to be Toll Roads but I believe the government has decided against that now.

The twinning between Sutherlands River and Antigonish is to begin next year (you can already see where preliminary work has begun) It will include 28 km of ‘Twinning’ plus a 10 km section of totally new 4-lane divided highway over the hills to the south of the gorge at Marshy Hope from just west of Exit 29 at Barneys River to near Pushies Road at the Pictou/Antigonish Co line.

[MonctonRad]

They're also twinning route 11 from Shediac Bridge to just south of Bouctouche in NB. I also would not be surprised to see route 15 divided further from Shediac to Cap Pele too. This is a busy commuter route into Moncton, with heavy tourist traffic to PEI in the summertime. All the overpasses on the "super two" along this route are already double wide to allow for twinning, so it shouldn't be too expensive. Although logical, twinning of this section has not been announced, but after route 11 to Bouctouche has been dealt with, I think this would be a natural.

At some point, I would think completion of twinning of route 7 from Oromocto to Saint John will occur as well.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

At some point, I would think completion of twinning of route 7 from Oromocto to Saint John will occur as well.

If by "some point" you mean in a few decades, sure. The traffic numbers don't support it and it would be a giant waste of money.

[NB_ExistsToo]

Originally Posted by OliverD

If by "some point" you mean in a few decades, sure. The traffic numbers don't support it and it would be a giant waste of money.

I could see them potentially twinning from SJ to the exit 51(57?) since there's that lonely section of twinned highway in that area.

But I agree, I've done the drive a number of times, and traffic has never been that bad. So I don't see that need to have it completed anytime soon.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by NB_ExistsToo

But I agree, I've done the drive a number of times, and traffic has never been that bad. So I don't see that need to have it completed anytime soon.

I feel like most people who think Route 7 should be entirely twinned just mentally think two "big" cities (Fredericton & Saint John) should be connected with a four lane because that's expected. A lot of it is also some SJ boosterism. The old joke is that the lack of a four lane is Saint John being shut out by the provincial government in Fredericton.

AADT numbers on 7 don't warrant twinning, and there's enough passing lanes that it's not really a difficult drive at any time. The bypass through Welsford was a welcome addition but aside from twinning north to that section from GBW I don't really see why else money would be poured into such a project. Maybe a potential PC government with a Premier from the SJ CMA would consider it, otherwise I think it's unlikely any time soon.

[Ire Narissis]

Yeah, I think it would make sense to twin from the existing 4-lane Martinon bypass through to the existing 4-lane Welsford bypass to create a contiguous stretch of twinned highway. Otherwise there really isn't the traffic to justify it, and the Petersville Hill 4-lane section does provide a good midpoint for any traffic snarls to resolve themselves, not to mention the various other passing lanes.

Barring twinning between Grand Bay and Welsford, I would at least like to see the Grand Bay exit adjusted where the highway narrows, so that instead of going down to 1 lane and then having an exit ramp, it's carried through as 2 lanes with one continuing on 7 and the other veering off toward Grand Bay, with overhead signage accordingly. This would alleviate one of the biggest annoyances and safety hazards on my commute, which is people arbitrarily slowing down in that short single-lane bit right before the Grand Bay exit, usually because they're that type of driver who doesn't understand highway merging and slows down in the traffic lane on approach to their exit (which I could give a whole other rant about, but I digress).