Atlantic Highways Thread

[Dengler Avenue]

The better way would be to complete the study and go P3 right away.

I’ve always admired how NB and NS bit the financial bullet and twinned TCH despite their financial situation at the time. (The topic came up again as I was discussing with my friend the prospect of twinning TCH in Ontario.)

My friend: “But we can use US interstates for free!”
Me: “Actually there are tolls.”
My friend: “But a project like this costs taxpayers a lot.”
Me: “Well if NB and NS toughed it out, I expect Ontario to do the same even though it has the longest section of TCH.”

Ps: Both of us went through Cobequid Pass on our way to and back from Halifax.

[MonctonRad]

We got a lot of help from the feds.

The federal government saw it as a legitimate infrastructure expense to help tie the Atlantic and central Canadian economies together.

They weren't wrong.

[Dengler Avenue]

Will the feds see it as a legitimate expense to help tie the western and central Canadian economies together?

Probably not.

To Ottawa, western Canada doesn’t exist.

[MonctonRad]

A little off topic (in the Atlantic Canada section), but I agree that a completely divided TCH through northern Ontario would be an important act of nation building, along the same lines the CPR was in the 1880s.

It would tie the two halves of the country together, and would give a boost to the local economy in northern Ontario to boot.

AADT shouldn't be the only consideration regarding highway twinning. There's also the intensity of truck traffic, geographic considerations, general highway safety issues (including climate related) and nation building........

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

A little off topic (in the Atlantic Canada section), but I agree that a completely divided TCH through northern Ontario would be an important act of nation building, along the same lines the CPR was in the 1880s.

It would tie the two halves of the country together, and would give a boost to the local economy in northern Ontario to boot.

Sorry I just saw it fit to extend the topic.

I guess I should have asked the question in the Trans-Canada Highway Twinning thread in the main forum.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Will the feds see it as a legitimate expense to help tie the western and central Canadian economies together?

Probably not.

To Ottawa, western Canada doesn’t exist.

At least across Northern Ontario there’s heavy duty CN and CPR railway mainlines moving goods that would otherwise have to go by road/truck. But in the east….once beyond Port Hawkesbury (really Truro) everything* goes by road to Cape Breton then ferry to Newfoundland. (*there are some containers moving directly to St John’s via ship)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

We got a lot of help from the feds.

.

I get by with a little help from my feds

I get high with a little help from my feds

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

At least across Northern Ontario there’s heavy duty CN and CPR railway mainlines moving goods that would otherwise have to go by road/truck. But in the east….once beyond Port Hawkesbury (really Truro) everything* goes by road to Cape Breton then ferry to Newfoundland. (*there are some containers moving directly to St John’s via ship)

I guess I have quite a few questions then:
(1) For Cebequid Pass, has NS decided to take the toll off completely for some of the vehicles? I was thinking that, once NS takes ownership of that stretch of Highway again, instead of removing tolls, it can bring it down from $4 to $2, for example (so essentially halve the price). The tolls collected go towards maintaining the Pass and future twinning of 104 towards Sydney.

(2) That brings it to the next question - Has NS succeeded in convincing Port Hastings and Port Hawkesbury to let the 104 Bypass happen? I’ve heard talks before where both Ports didn’t want it to happen.

(3) Is the rail next to 104 (i.e. near Barney’s River Station) abandoned??

(4) Acajack what was that...

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I guess I have quite a few questions then:

(3) Is the rail next to 104 (i.e. near Barney’s River Station) abandoned??

There are still trains operated by Genesee and Wyoming’s CB&CNS Rwy on the line between Truro and Port Hawkesbury thru Barney's River/Marshy Hope (where the track is parallel to the highway) Beyond Port Hawkesbury to Sydney the track is still in place but hasn’t seen a train for 3 years. The province is subsidizing the CB&CNS to not abandon that section.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

There are still trains operated by Genesee and Wyoming’s CB&CNS Rwy on the line between Truro and Port Hawkesbury thru Barney's River/Marshy Hope (where the track is parallel to the highway) Beyond Port Hawkesbury to Sydney the track is still in place but hasn’t seen a train for 3 years. The province is subsidizing the CB&CNS to not abandon that section.

I think the province should just take over the rail in that case and run some proper passenger service from Sydney to Truro. Haven’t NS Liberals been talking about rural infrastructure for a while?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I think the province should just take over the rail in that case and run some proper passenger service from Sydney to Truro.

Cape Breton is bleeding 1,000 people every year. Why would the provincial government ever take on a project like that?

Would be wiser to improve frequency on the Moncton-Halifax corridor and provide funding for Halifax commuter rail service.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Cape Breton is bleeding 1,000 people every year. Why would the provincial government ever take on a project like that?

Would be wiser to improve frequency on the Moncton-Halifax corridor and provide funding for Halifax commuter rail service.

I forgot about the first part.

I like the idea in the second part.

Now any answer to my first 2 questions?

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Cape Breton is bleeding 1,000 people every year. Why would the provincial government ever take on a project like that?

Would be wiser to improve frequency on the Moncton-Halifax corridor and provide funding for Halifax commuter rail service.

Exactly!

Maritime Bus can hardly attract enough passengers to make the Sydney run worthwhile let alone an 80 passenger RDC rail car. Just not enough population. The bus doesn't fill until it gets to St FX in Antigonish.

It would take huge sums to upgrade the rail line and still I don't believe it would ever be time competitive with the highway. Best to spend the money on a twinned highway to Cape Breton and the Newfoundland Ferry for the greater benefit of most.

[Dengler Avenue]

And then NL needs to twin 100 to Argentia with a Dunnville Bypass and reconfigure their Highway 1 around 100 and 81. Obviously the province will need to persuade small towns along the way to allow that to happen first, which is gonna be a hard sell...

Never mind I didn’t know the Argentia run only operates in summer...

[PEI highway guy]

Never mind I didn’t know the Argentia run only operates in summer...[/QUOTE]

My father (now deceased) used to work at the Marine Atlantic office in Moncton when Marine had ferrty services all over the 4 Atlantic provinces. I asked him why the Argentia run only ran in summer? he told me it was the rough seas . The POrt of Basque run is in a strait. Argentia is run in open water of the Atlantic. Not sure if this reason still holds true, Especially with the advancement of Ferry technology, however, this is what he said.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by PEI highway guy

Never mind I didn’t know the Argentia run only operates in summer...

My father (now deceased) used to work at the Marine Atlantic office in Moncton when Marine had ferrty services all over the 4 Atlantic provinces. I asked him why the Argentia run only ran in summer? he told me it was the rough seas . The POrt of Basque run is in a strait. Argentia is run in open water of the Atlantic. Not sure if this reason still holds true, Especially with the advancement of Ferry technology, however, this is what he said.

The Cabot Strait ain't no walk in the park either (during a gale), but the open north Atlantic would be even worse.

[Marty_Mcfly]

^ It can get pretty nasty out there in the middle of the winter. At least Sydney to PAB is only 150 km in a relatively sheltered strait, so even if it is rough it's not a long trip nor are you ever too far from help if needed.

I imagine numbers are a lot less in the winter season too, so may as well cut the route that costs Marine Atlantic more to run.

Having the TCH completely twinned from Port Aux Basque to Whitbourne is a complete pipe dream that will never happen. Thankfully the highway doesn't cut through too many towns once you past Gander heading west, so that's never really a huge problem. The biggest pain in the ass was driving through Terra Nova Park, but now that it's twinned it isn't so bad.

[Dengler Avenue]

Which part in Tera Nova is twinned...? I don’t see it on the map (unless you were referring to just the interchange to and from Come by Chance).

Also TCH’s interchange with 430 in Deer Lake makes no sense. Why are the shops along the highway right by an interchange...

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Which part in Tera Nova is twinned...? I don’t see it on the map (unless you were referring to just the interchange to and from Come by Chance).

Also TCH’s interchange with 430 in Deer Lake makes no sense. Why are the shops along the highway right by an interchange...

My apologies, I thought the final goal for Terra Nova was to twin. It appears they just added strategic passing lanes so you don't get stuck behind vehicles going 60 throughout the entire length of the park (which was a real major problem)

The buildings on the highway near Deer Lake are mostly gas stations, restaurants, and motels. It's not necessarily for the town residents, it's for people passing through. When travelling west, it's literally the first thing you see after driving for maybe 2.5 hours through Green Bay, aka the middle of nowhere. Also seeing as the highway between Deer Lake and Grand Falls has very spotty radio AND cell service, this is usually where you find out that the ferry has been docked and isn't running. Gives you a spot to stop, eat, and get a room to wait it out until morning. Beyond that, it's another 40'ish minutes to Corner Brook, which is really your last spot to stop before the final long haul down to Port Aux Basque.

[JHikka]

Route 11 upgrades between Cocagne River and Little Bouctouche River and between Glenwood and Miramichi are being postponed by the new provincial government.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...ture-1.4941010