Metro Vancouver 2011 Civic Election Thread

[s211]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Why is this project not smart?

Cost vs. benefit. Translink rightly won't touch this project with a ten foot pole. This money would be better spent elsewhere.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by s211

Cost vs. benefit. Translink rightly won't touch this project with a ten foot pole. This money would be better spent elsewhere.

That's the beauty of it. Translink isn't being asked to fund it. Rather Anton wants to make sure that while it is integrated into Translink's fare structure, it would be a P3.

[jlousa]

Translink would touch it, they just won't pay to build it as they don't have money. If the city were to turned it over to Translink after building it Translink would be thrilled to run it and then be able to elimanate duplicating service.
The city could easily recoup most of the construction costs by area specific dcls. It would increase construction costs a few more dollars a sqft but the units would easily command the additional costs.
I am surprised to see Meggs come out and bash the idea publically, guess that explains why the streetcar demo line never materialized into anything more.

[dreambrother808]

In Meggs own words, “I think it’s the wrong priority at the wrong time, and the streetcar option that we should pursue is the one that’s available if we’re able to move through the current funding discussion and get to the Broadway corridor."

Meggs argued the region’s priority should be moving forward with a transit strategy for the Broadway corridor. One option that has been proposed by TransLink, he noted, would incorporate streetcar service from VCC Clark, past Olympic Village to Arbutus and Broadway.

http://www.straight.com/article-4663...ion-councillor

Simply painting him as being anti-streetcar is rather disingenuous.

If the city could build this and finance it in the way Jlousa described, I'm certainly all for it. However, I would prefer that that money went towards more critical transportation needs in the city, such as the Broadway Line. The fact that Anton has raised this as an issue also feels purely political to me. That has been my issue with her style in general.

[jlousa]

I was going with the following quote

Vision City Coun. Geoff Meggs said Anton’s proposal is a revival of an old idea that stands almost no chance of becoming a reality.

“She would impose a $200-million bill on Vancouver taxpayers when we could get a streetcar built by TransLink that would serve both our Broadway corridor and the region,” Meggs said.

Source: http://www.metronews.ca/vancouver/lo...anton-s-desire

Sounds to me that Meggs expects Translink to build a streetcar along Broadway. Really hope I'm reading that wrong.

[ckkelley]

Exciting ideas:

NPA 1 VISION/COPE 0

Will Gregor step up to the plate or stay the course? There's not much time left.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Sounds to me that Meggs expects Translink to build a streetcar along Broadway. Really hope I'm reading that wrong.

The Straight article has more than just the one soundbite.

He said that it was ONE of the options that Translink has proposed, yes. That is not necessarily a negation of the other options.

[jlousa]

Translink doesn't have a streetcar along Broadway as an option. LRT yes (although it's unlikely to make the final cut), streetcar no. One would assume that a person in Meggs position would know the difference.

[dreambrother808]

Often the difference between streetcar and LRT is just terminology.

Here's a good article on the matter.

http://www.humantransit.org/2010/03/...ifference.html

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Translink doesn't have a streetcar along Broadway as an option. LRT yes (although it's unlikely to make the final cut), streetcar no. One would assume that a person in Meggs position would know the difference.

Well, one would expect someone in Meggs' position to know better than to blow through a stop sign on his bike, but no. Funny to see the Visionistas here dump on the streetcar and defend the opinion of someone whose pet project is the destruction of infrastructure.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Translink would touch it, they just won't pay to build it as they don't have money. If the city were to turned it over to Translink after building it Translink would be thrilled to run it and then be able to eliminate duplicating service.
The city could easily recoup most of the construction costs by area specific dcls. It would increase construction costs a few more dollars a sqft but the units would easily command the additional costs.
I am surprised to see Meggs come out and bash the idea publicly, guess that explains why the streetcar demo line never materialized into anything more.

Totally agree. Another reason Translink isn't going to touch it is because of the political complications. It's too Vancouver-City specific and it would either get blocked by other cities (no doubt with Burnaby's Corrigan leading the charge) or set a pattern of other municipalities wanting their own streetcar paid for by Translink.

By putting in the capital costs from the city and asking Translink to run it, Translink can wash their hands of it. If it isn't successful or there are cost overruns, Translink doesn't take the flack from from the other municipalities.

I also think it's a good model to follow for the Gondola and SkyTrain past Arbutus... but that's another issue.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Funny to see the Visionistas here dump on the streetcar and defend the opinion of someone whose pet project is the destruction of infrastructure.

Once again, you have quite the talent for inaccurately paraphrasing others.

I've already stated that I am in favor of a streetcar but that I would prefer the money going towards a solution to the overcrowded Broadway corridor. That being said, if this were to go through according to Anton's "vision" I would support it in spite of my fears that it might financially be unwise at this time.

The NPA cannot buy my vote though, and that is the greater issue for me.

[Waders]

NPA challenger Suzanne Anton promises moratorium on Vancouver bike lanes

Source: The Province

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by Waders

NPA challenger Suzanne Anton promises moratorium on Vancouver bike lanes

Source: The Province

NOw that's a bad idea. for relatively little money (compared to the streetcar) we get new transit infrastructure for a new mode of transport that fits a unique niche, and street-calming, to boot.

This is especially worrisome, from the link above :

Anton, the Non-Partisan Association challenger to Vision Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson, said she’d put a moratorium on Robertson’s cherished bike lanes and consider ripping up the three existing downtown bike lanes.

“Everywhere I go, people want to talk about bike lanes,” said Anton, who wouldn’t permit a proposed Yaletown-Drake Street separated bike lane if she’s elected.
....
“If Gregor wins, there will be a lot more bike lanes.

“If I win, there will be a review, and what we can’t fix, we’ll remove.”

My guess is that she will never rip up the existing separated bike lanes (didn't she just say that?), but the talk is discouraging.

Also, I knew about the comox greenway, but that is the first i heard of a drake street separated bike lane....

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

NOw that's a bad idea. for relatively little money (compared to the streetcar) we get new transit infrastructure for a new mode of transport that fits a unique niche, and street-calming, to boot.

It must be nice to be in a financial position where $5 million is considered "relatively little money".

And of course Vision has a de facto moratorium on bike lanes of their own right now. That said, this issue just plays to the NPA base, there really was no good reason to announce it now, it won't bring them any new votes. The smart thing for them to do would be to announce a committee to study new routes, one that isn't solely made up of VACC cast-offs.

[WarrenC12]

Anton was quoted on the radio this morning as saying that she wanted "an independent review to determine what is wrong with the bike lanes".

Sounds like she's already made up her mind. But wait, didn't she vote yes for the lane, then come out the next day to criticize it?

She's not doing well on the credibility front so far...

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by whatnext

It must be nice to be in a financial position where $5 million is considered "relatively little money".

Relative to $200 million.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Anton was quoted on the radio this morning as saying that she wanted "an independent review to determine what is wrong with the bike lanes".

Sounds like she's already made up her mind. But wait, didn't she vote yes for the lane, then come out the next day to criticize it?

She's not doing well on the credibility front so far...

As has been pointed out ad nauseum, Anton rescinded her vote when it became apparent the consultation was a sham. Its like me asking you for your opinion about installing a giant Ferris wheel in Stanley Park,thanking you heartily for your opinion, and then breaking ground on it 2 hours later.

I've said it here before, but the VACC and other members of the bike lobby were foolish to tie their two wheels so obviously to Vision.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

Relative to $200 million.

Relative to how many people will actually use it,outside of spandex-clad middle aged men.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Relative to how many people will actually use it,outside of spandex-clad middle aged men.

The separated bike lanes see around 11,000 trips per day. Anton thinks the $200-million streetcar might see 13,000 daily boardings (who really knows, there's no no proven transit route and no data). The streetcar would need to have 400,000+ daily boardings to be as cost-effective on a per trip basis as the separated bike lane network. That's obviously absurd.

Now, I have actually no issue with the streetcar. I think it would be an interesting addition to the city, but to suggest that it's more cost-effective than any other particular project is tough. It's expensive, there's no way around it.