Why does everyone love Montreal?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

They closed because they had a lousy location that drew neither locals nor tourists in sufficient quantities. Combine that with increasing rents at 240 Sparks due to imminent LRT opening, and the fact that they tried too late and failed to get into the Rideau expansion, and that's the real story. What you said is the company line they towed to try and save face.

If Holt Renfrew had really wanted to stay in Ottawa they would have found a location.

Retailers set up new locations in Manhattan, central Paris, central London and central Tokyo all the time.

I doubt Ottawa is a tighter retail space market than those cities.

[Martin Mtl]

It's a well known fact that big american chains tend to establish themselves in english Canada (Toronto, Vancouver) first, before entering the Quebec market. Coming into the Quebec market implies that all your marchandises and communications must be in french, so it's something that has to be prepare well in advance and worth it. Nordstrom will come here eventually, but nobody in Montreal is loosing any sleep over that one.

Saks Fifth Avenue, for exemple, opened its first two Canadian stores in Toronto, and will follow in 2018 with its third Canadian location, in downtown Montreal (it will be the largest in Canada). So far, no store is announced for Vancouver... or Ottawa (except the lower brand of Saks Off 5th Ave, which will also be opening in downtown Montreal anyway).

The Holt Renfrew-Ogilvy store that will opened also in 2018, along with a new Four Seasons Hotel on De La Montagne street, will be the largest luxury department store in Canada.

So I guess Montreal is not doing so bad. Right there, that's two big high end fashion department stores that shoppers from Ottawa will have to travel here to enjoy.

[1overcosc]

Is travelling to another city for shopping really that common? I mean, I manage to do all of my shopping in Kingston and so does almost everyone I know, and my clothing tastes are on the expensive side.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Is travelling to another city for shopping really that common? I mean, I manage to do all of my shopping in Kingston and so does almost everyone I know, and my clothing tastes are on the expensive side.

Ottawans of means have always gone to Montreal, Syracuse and Toronto for shopping. I assume they still do as a sort of consumer tourism.

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Is travelling to another city for shopping really that common? I mean, I manage to do all of my shopping in Kingston and so does almost everyone I know, and my clothing tastes are on the expensive side.

OMG! You must look sooooo last week! lol

[Razor]

delete

[Razor]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Is travelling to another city for shopping really that common? I mean, I manage to do all of my shopping in Kingston and so does almost everyone I know, and my clothing tastes are on the expensive side.

No..I don't think so..Most people I know are like yourself, and find things right at home.

I don't think a large majority of people from Ottawa, even the ones of means, routinely make exclusive trips to Montreal because Ottawa is shopping deprived and they have no other choice.

However, lots of Ottawans do make trips to that Waterloo outlet Mall near Syracuse, but it's more for the outing, the deals, and the Ruby Tuesday's white bean chili in Water Town on the way back... It's not like The Ottawa to Montreal excursion thing is comparable to the family from Smith Falls who travel into Carleton Place, because that's where the nearest home Depot is

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If Holt Renfrew had really wanted to stay in Ottawa they would have found a location.

Retailers set up new locations in Manhattan, central Paris, central London and central Tokyo all the time.

I doubt Ottawa is a tighter retail space market than those cities.

I was going to check on that for you but some diva from Ottawa just bought the last copy of Retail News. Sorry!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Razor

No..I don't think so..Most people I know are like yourself, and find things right at home.

I don't think a large majority of people from Ottawa, even the ones of means, routinely make exclusive trips to Montreal because Ottawa is shopping deprived and they have no other choice.

However, lots of Ottawans do make trips to that Waterloo outlet Mall near Syracuse, but it's more for the outing, the deals, and the Ruby Tuesday's white bean chili in Water Town on the way back... It's not like The Ottawa to Montreal excursion thing is comparable to the family from Smith Falls who travel into Carleton Place, because that's where the nearest home Depot is

People don't necessarily travel to shop because they consider shopping to be deficient in their own city. Sometimes it's just to see something different, a change of pace.

Lots of people from Ottawa come to Gatineau to go to Clément, Mad Max, Mady, Amnesia, Colori, Vincent d'Amérique, L'Aubainerie, etc.

I am sure it's not because they think the shopping options in Ottawa are inferior to Gatineau's.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Is travelling to another city for shopping really that common? I mean, I manage to do all of my shopping in Kingston and so does almost everyone I know, and my clothing tastes are on the expensive side.

I'm the same, the only "traveling to another city" I do while shopping is for high quality used items on kijiji. Since I still alternate between the Sherbrooke, Quebec City and Trois-Rivières metro areas, it gives me a much greater pool of stuff to choose from.

For the exact right Thermo 2000 used 30 kW electric boiler sold on kijiji for a song that's ideal for my application, I'm willing to go get that in Shawinigan. (Actual real life example.)

Otherwise, no, any city of 100k or more will always have everything I need.

But on both my mom's side and my gf's side (people from the Gaspe Peninsula in both cases), there are occasional shopping trips to Rimouski (minor) and to Quebec City (major), at least yearly it seems.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Is travelling to another city for shopping really that common? I mean, I manage to do all of my shopping in Kingston and so does almost everyone I know, and my clothing tastes are on the expensive side.

You can dress yourself nicely in a city the size of Kingston, or even a smaller place. But it will usually be more expensive and you'll find yourself in the same places a lot.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

It's a well known fact that big american chains tend to establish themselves in english Canada (Toronto, Vancouver) first, before entering the Quebec market. Coming into the Quebec market implies that all your marchandises and communications must be in french, so it's something that has to be prepare well in advance and worth it. .

That, plus everything the employees work with has to be produced in French: training manuals and other stuff, the touch screens at the checkouts' cash registers, etc. Often the marketing strategies, campaigns and products also have to be redone from scratch.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That, plus everything the employees work with has to be produced in French: training manuals and other stuff, the touch screens at the checkouts' cash registers, etc. Often the marketing strategies, campaigns and products also have to be redone from scratch.

/\ Exactly. And the Quebec market being relatively small, it's not worth it for many retailers.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You can dress yourself nicely in a city the size of Kingston, or even a smaller place. But it will usually be more expensive and you'll find yourself in the same places a lot.

I get all of my casual clothing & undergarments from Loblaws (Joe Fresh is actually a pretty nice line considering how cheap it is) and for work clothes I typically browse around downtown boutiques with the odd trip to the local mall here and there. At the mall, Hudson Bay, Stars, Topman, and H&M are my most common choices.

For formalwear I have two suits, one from Moore's (in Kingston) and the other from Cunningham & Poupore's in downtown Kingston. They're a very nice store for men's formal wear but definitely on the pricey side, although I don't think they're particularly pricier than comparable stores in other cities.

If I was into a lot of specific brand names it might be hard, but otherwise, most people could meet their clothing needs here.

[ue]

There's not really anywhere within earshot of Edmonton to travel to that would have better shopping than here. We aren't even close to cross-border shopping opportunities. The most you'll get is the occasional person going down to Calgary to shop at CrossIron Mills, which offers a different experience from what can be had here, but that's about it. Calgary used to be the more inferior shopping city in Alberta, but it's stepped up its game with the renos of Chinook, The Core, and then CIM, but there isn't enough differentiation to make Edmontonians regularly visit for shopping trips.

If anything, Edmonton is more of a shopping destination itself for a vast hinterland. The Edmonton IKEA is known to often have plates from the NWT and Saskatchewan, for example. West Ed and the other major malls are also destinations of choice for people coming far and wide. WEM in particular has a distinct Mennonite contingent on weekends, though I notice it more in the summer.

I'm frankly still surprised Holts gave up on the Ottawa and Quebec City markets. I'd assume if Edmonton and Calgary can pull of a Holts, so could they. Hell, didn't Holts start in QC?

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

Perhaps the entourage you hang with in your "million trips" to Montreal tend to be the same brand-obsessed shopaholic scenesters as yourself who attach so much importance and feelings of self worth to wearing the right labels and being seen carrying the appropriate shopping bag?

You're a pleasant fellow. Welcome to the discussion and happy new year Oh, and it's a billion times, not million. I also lived there for 3 years and married one of your women.

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

So I guess Montreal is not doing so bad.

Of course not. It's doing very well actually. Anybody say differently?

Originally Posted by Acajack

If Holt Renfrew had really wanted to stay in Ottawa they would have found a location.

Retailers set up new locations in Manhattan, central Paris, central London and central Tokyo all the time.

I doubt Ottawa is a tighter retail space market than those cities.

Actually in many ways it is for the simple fact that there are way less locations to operate a store of that calibre where one can draw on the necessary mass of people to be successful. Central Ottawa has exactly one such location. They tried but failed to get into Rideau because they were beaten to the punch in obtaining the desired retail spaces within.

Indeed they are there in Ottawa. The problem is that I can't find a single good reason why a city the size of Montreal wouldn't easily have three to four times more.

Pretty sure i never said otherwise.

I honestly know zero people in Ottawa, whether they're anglo, franco, Chinese, Somali, Lebanese, etc. who'd say that Ottawa has better shopping than Montreal.

Who said that it does again? A claim was made that it's "vastly superior", and I challenged that in kind. Try following along instead of being so sensitive.

Other than that... it's just the apex of homerism. (And maybe a bit of bitterness towards the city at the other of the 417.)

The most simplistic and predictable of arguments presents itself. Anyway, been there, lived that. There's exactly nothing to be bitter over from where I sit.

Happy new year!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ue

There's not really anywhere within earshot of Edmonton to travel to that would have better shopping than here. We aren't even close to cross-border shopping opportunities. The most you'll get is the occasional person going down to Calgary to shop at CrossIron Mills, which offers a different experience from what can be had here, but that's about it. Calgary used to be the more inferior shopping city in Alberta, but it's stepped up its game with the renos of Chinook, The Core, and then CIM, but there isn't enough differentiation to make Edmontonians regularly visit for shopping trips.

If anything, Edmonton is more of a shopping destination itself for a vast hinterland. The Edmonton IKEA is known to often have plates from the NWT and Saskatchewan, for example. West Ed and the other major malls are also destinations of choice for people coming far and wide. WEM in particular has a distinct Mennonite contingent on weekends, though I notice it more in the summer.

I'm frankly still surprised Holts gave up on the Ottawa and Quebec City markets. I'd assume if Edmonton and Calgary can pull of a Holts, so could they. Hell, didn't Holts start in QC?

In good times at least, Calgary and Edmonton are seen as more "big spender" type cities than Ottawa is. They're also richer and almost twice the size of Quebec City's CMA.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

/\ Exactly. And the Quebec market being relatively small, it's not worth it for many retailers.

I was in the fairly new Ottawa store of a largish American chain recently and was thinking of this thread.

Basically, everything they use in the U.S. for the store is used in Ottawa as well: product labelling is in English only and of course the sizes are the same. They already have dual USD-CAD pricing on their stickers. Signage is in English only as is all of their marketing, and U.S. spelling predominates: color, favorite, center, etc.

About the only thing they need to adapt is taxation stuff at the cash register, but they need to do this as well in the U.S. as taxes change from state to state and even county to county.

Extremely seamless when compared to entering the Quebec market.

[Acajack]

I wonder if this (relative) absence of many American chains has allowed Quebec-specific retail more breathing room to develop a niche?