"Vancouver coasts on its beauty, but misses out on creating vibrant city life."

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by racc

A good start would be to get the traffic off of Water Street. It would be a great pedestrian street and the bricks would last a lot longer. They could also use real bricks instead of ugly concrete pavers.

I would definitely support restricting general traffic from Water street, but still allow delivery vehicles access (which they do on many pedestrian streets in Japan and Europe).

And yes, it would have to be re-laid with real bricks. Concrete pavers would look terrible in Gastown.

But again, ideas such as these is why I support keeping the viaducts, and especially not having Georgia dead end at the escarpment, because it is streets such as East hastings and Water Street i want to see have traffic highly reduced from, or in the case of Water Street, removed. These are the areas to reduce general vehicle capacity into downtown, and also introduce trams.

[vancityrox]

i think an arcade over blood alley and the next alley would be cool...maybe get some retail into the patio spaces across from Salt tasting room and judas Goat. That space would be a great terasse area for drinking and food. Like St.Sulpice bar in montreal that has a patio thats as big as the VAGs georgia street fountain plaza/yard!

[SpongeG]

toronto has laid granite on its bloor street and its looks great


taller, better at SSC via google images


thetorontoblog.com

[someone123]

Yeah, he's wrong about a bunch of things. Vancouver would be worse off if it had underground paths downtown. It's also better than most other Western cities. In particular the transit system here is much better than average and is an important prerequisite for having a functioning higher-density city.

Something to keep in mind when looking at "streetlife" is that it is only very rarely planned. The vast majority of good areas have grown organically over a long period during which there was some sort of pressure to intensify development and concentrate activity. If New York were rebuilt today it would look completely different and in fact many things purposefully planned and executed by planners during the past 50 years or so have been fairly inept and harmful. The city has persisted despite these changes; it's totally wrong to think that the planning activities are what created the streetlife. Vancouver has done considerably better but had less to begin with.

The one big point I do agree with is that Vancouver needs to increase densities outside of the core. Many parts of the city are being artificially preserved as primarily single family dwellings. It's hard to even add on to houses in these areas (or build lane houses etc.), let alone build the sort of development that would bring housing prices back to a reasonable level.

[dreambrother808]

That does look quite awesome.

We only get granite "strips" on Granville.

[Metro-One]

I don't understand the complete hate for underground pedestrian networks, IMO they offer a weather controlled safe pedestrian environment.

Now, I do understand that we want to keep the lion's share of pedestrian activity above grade, which it naturally does when the weather is nice! Who wants to be underground on a sunny mild day?

But, during a 5 degree misting, soggy day I sure do love the fact that I can go shopping at Pacific Centre and transfer between the Expo Line and the C-Line without getting wet at both Waterfront and Granville.

Does Vancouver need to build an underground system like Toronto or Montreal? No. Would a few more connections between what is already existing be nice? Yes. For example, when the M-Line gets built and interacts with the C-Line at Broadway I sure hope that connection is underground and any new large office projects in the vicinity of such a station do have an underground access.

For me, one of the neatest urban experiences in Vancouver now is being able to transfer through Pacific Centre from the E-line to the C-Line. It honestly reminds me of being back in Japan, the king of how to build an urban space.

And the main reason why I feel like this is it seems that vancouver is trying to create an oxymoron. If the city dislike underground passage ways so much then why did we build all of our mass transit stations downtown underground????

It seems that if the goal was to discourage underground pedestrian activity then maybe skytrain should have been built above grade downtown... Because, underground mass transit systems lend themselves so easily for underground passageways. Look at any city that has subways and they have underground networks. Cities, like San Diego (possibly the best climate in the world for year round outdoor pedestrian activity) which have no underground networks also have no subways, only above ground transit.

[SpongeG]

the skytrain comparison is just dumb they used existing structure

[Metro-One]

I fail to see how it is dumb, when you build the backbone of your mass transit system underground, underground pedestrian passageways and malls are natural byproducts.

The Canada Line sure didn't use existing infrastructure..... especially along Cambie where there are no existing underground transit lines to interact with...

I have been on many underground transit systems, and they all seem to have underground pedestrian facilities connecting to office towers and malls throughout them, especially in the downtown cores... Especially when you have entire transit hubs underground... which we now do.

[twoNeurons]

Vancouver's previous arcades (gallerias?) are nothing like what I'm thinking:

Not specifically that, except perhaps over converted alleys, but you can see that they're far from claustrophobic (especially when made of glass)



I love the canopy overhang in that far building. Way high up on the building letting in lots of light (I'm thinking Sears) and below would have street-facing retail.


Here's the full image: http://www.photopassjapan.com/large_...g%20arcade.jpg

Layered infrastructure (viaducts anyone?):

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by simonfiction

Aren't most of these gallerias rather than arcades? I can see why they wouldn't have worked and the ones I've seen on Robson don't look all that welcoming.

An arcade though - an actual passage way with a beginning and an end, covered with shops lining them - I could totally see that working in Vancouver.

Yeah, they didn't serve as passages. The ones on Robson weren't dark - they had barrel vaulted glass atriums.

The ones in Yaletown were claustraphobic (meant to be intimate).
Ditto for Le Magasin in Gastown.

Vancouver's alleys would pretty much prevent any mid-block arcades providing a mid-block passage. Vancouver's main shopping street aren't generally parallel to each other - so a passage may not lead anywhere.

The biggest "arcade" would be International Village Mall - built along the old CP RoW and provides a mid-block diagonal passage from Keefer to Pender.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I fail to see how it is dumb, when you build the backbone of your mass transit system underground, underground pedestrian passageways and malls are natural byproducts.

The Canada Line sure didn't use existing infrastructure..... especially along Cambie where there are no existing underground transit lines to interact with...

I have been on many underground transit systems, and they all seem to have underground pedestrian facilities connecting to office towers and malls throughout them, especially in the downtown cores... Especially when you have entire transit hubs underground... which we now do.

we don't have that much stuff downtown anyway - most people are there for work not for leisure - bentall centre is loaded with all the shops someone in an office could need on their break

[SpongeG]

we're not tokyo - we're not hurting for space we don't need to utilize the alleyways yet

blood alley is okay but it usually smells like piss and you have to dodge the junkies who give you dirty looks as you duck into judas goat - been there done that no thanks

[Metro-One]

Hence we have to get rid of dumpsters. And if we are so keen on preserving what is left of our natural space around us, our ALR and our industrial lands, with our population growing and expected to surpass 3 million in 10 years, we do have to start looking at layers and not destroy the layers we have already built...

[SpongeG]

if these things worked we would have them - the city has tried, private groups have tried many times to get things going and the public doesn't support it

look at when they tried to revive seafest a while back - it was poorly attended and was a flop - many people complained that it was too corporate and avoided it for that reason and that happens time and time again here

the general public just doesn't want things and its stupid and frustrating
but hell organize an anti "the man" fest and 1000's will show up - organize a lets block cars from functioning downtown while we ride or bikes aimlessly everywhere and 1000's will show up

the richmond night market was great for a few years the last couple times i went last year it was dead and 50% of the stalls were empty and never bothered to go back and that seemed to be the consensus i got from what i read online

I haven't gone back to the chinatown night market cause the one time i did go it was pretty dead too - maybe its improved i don't know and don't care enough to find out

[SpongeG]

for the record i would love to see all these things change - i thought it sucked when the robson clamshell wasn't going to happen

i think the alley beside salgamundi west on cordova would be a great alley to make into something special


flickr

[racc]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

toronto has laid granite on its bloor street and its looks great

Now that is what I'm talking about. It does look great and it is really functional as well.

It is sad in Vancouver that exposed aggregate concrete is considered fancy. On Granville Mall, I have seen people rolling their luggage along the road because I expect it is smoother and quieter than the exposed aggregate on the sidewalk. The people designing streets and sidewalks in this town just don't have a clue. They haven't even bothered to observe how people are using sidewalks, streets and paths.

[racc]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Hence we have to get rid of dumpsters. And if we are so keen on preserving what is left of our natural space around us, our ALR and our industrial lands, with our population growing and expected to surpass 3 million in 10 years, we do have to start looking at layers and not destroy the layers we have already built...

We do need to get rid of the dumpsters. A few years ago, the city was looking at doing this. Problem was that no one from the "garbage mafia" was interested so they dropped it. Not sure why the city just didn't go ahead and do it themselves.

[Metro-One]

I was quite disappointed myself when that plan was abandoned. Every time I am walking around downtown i hate how messy and unsightly they are. They are magnets of illegal activity it seems as well.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by racc

The people designing streets and sidewalks in this town just don't have a clue. They haven't even bothered to observe how people are using sidewalks, streets and paths.

Granite is very expensive. That is what it comes down to, basically. The city felt that they could not afford to do all of Granville in granite and so they added the strips. Toronto as a much bigger city is going to have a lot more money to renovate a premier street like Bloor.

[racc]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Granite is very expensive. That is what it comes down to, basically. The city felt that they could not afford to do all of Granville in granite and so they added the strips. Toronto as a much bigger city is going to have a lot more money to renovate a premier street like Bloor.

That is just a lame excuse. Cities in Spain and Portugal use granite all over the place. Spain's per capita GDP is about half of that of Vancouver's while Spain is around 1/3. It is a matter of placing a priority on great looking streets and pedestrian spaces. Downtown certainly is dense enough and generates enough property tax revenue to justify granite on a few streets.

If money was really an issue on Granville, they should have just ditched those silly light sticks. The poles clog up the sidewalks and the lights distract from the buildings, the neon signs and the interesting lighting on the buildings.