Which idea do you like more?: province of Northern Ont or NW Ont joining Man.?

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Razor

I'm willing to bet that if the Ontario Government could create some sort of Utopian province or have a do over, all resource towns like Timmins and Kirkland Lake would be two weeks in two weeks out fly ins like the trend we've been seeing. Everybody would live in the cities, and most of these resource towns would be camps. or an extension of cottage country/recreation.

Of course it's too late now.

I think you are right about that. Although maybe there would be cities like Timmins but no towns at all such as Kap, K.L., Cochrane, etc..

[niwell]

^Yeah that is more accurate. If anything, Timmins would be a bit larger. There would probably be one town along the highway 11 northern arc - Hearst at 20,000 or so maybe?

[Spocket]

Well, if you joined Manitoba, you could completely forget about highway upgrades. Manitoba is a province that has had over 60 years to finish one single, fixed length freeway and plenty of opportunity to do so. Still not even close to finished. We only just finished twinning the TCH to the Saskatchewan border. It's pathetic.

And social programs...you're still better off in Ontario. Manitoba has plenty of them but we can barely afford what we do have and you'd almost certainly get less money if you joined Mb.

[toaster]

Originally Posted by vid

Every YQT-TO flight I've been on (regardless of whether it's between Pearson or City Centre) has been completely full, but I've only been on one flight between Thunder Bay and Winnipeg that was more than 75% full. The first and last scheduled flight every day at YQT (and I think YTZ) is a Thunder Bay/Toronto flight. 5am to 1am. And Thunder Bay has the province's 5th or 6th busiest airport (used to be 3rd before Porter Airlines revitalized City Centre and discount airlines discovered London and Hamilton) even though we're the 17th largest CMA in the province. It's by far the busiest airport in Northern Ontario, probably half of the passengers that fly in this region go through it.

Should note that no airlines use jets to service us anymore, they all replaced them with Q400s so they could increase flight frequency, which is kind of annoying (they're a bit slower and there is no tv on the back of the seat) but also really convenient (you can chose from 12 to 16 flight times per day, and two different airports). I think we only had 8 flights to Pearson daily back when it was just WestJet and Air Canada jets. So you can probably credit Porter Airlines for bringing us closer to Toronto.



That's mainly due to services though. Thunder Bay is the service centre for NWO, so most people in NWO have been here to access health care, education and government services. If Thunder Bay doesn't have it, you go to Toronto, not Sudbury. (In rare situations, Winnipeg; in exceptional situations, Duluth or Minneapolis) In the north east, you'll go to Sault Ste. Marie, Sudbury, Timmins or North Bay depending on what service you need, not Thunder Bay. And Toronto from there is the service isn't in those towns.

The space between Thunder Bay and Sault Ste. Marie is a huge obstacle, and the amount of people travelling that corridor doesn't justify a cheap flight (it costs 5 times as much for me to fly from Thunder Bay to Sault Ste. Marie than it does to fly to Toronto; and in that respect, Europe is more accessible.)

Northeastern Ontarians consider NWO to be part of the province because there's more province to the north and west of them. But for us, we're the end. If they take a step back, they're in our yard. If we take a step back, we're not in Ontario anymore. And since we never need to go to the Northeast, it doesn't really factor into anything for us. The closest I've been to Sudbury is when I flew over Espanola to get to Toronto.

Also, Northwestern Ontario is bilingual too, but English and Oji-Cree, not English and French. Anti-francophone sentiment is disappearing but still exists here. You're more likely to hear several languages before French in this city. That creates a bit of a further disconnect. I've met people here who think everyone in Northeastern Ontario speaks French because they went to Hearst once and everyone speaks French there.



I like to bring this up to people about those isolated communities. If you're going to say that remote First Nations need to be relocated to larger cities, you should probably concede the same about remote white communities like Nakina, Armstrong, Manitouwadge or Pickle Lake. The sum of their populations could be put into Thunder Bay Transit's 49-vehicle fleet and driven the 500km to this city and I doubt people here would even notice the new arrivals.

But then you can do the same with Thunder Bay and Toronto. Depends on how centralized you want people to be. Newfoundland literally bribes residents of its outports to move to centralized communities and many refuse.

I appreciate everything you are sharing, but this is all anecdotal at best. If you do go to North-Eastern Ontario, you would almost always hear French being spoken out in the community (Sudbury, Timmins, Hearst, Kap, and most other small communities). Sure, everyone doesn't speak the language, but it is very common. I do get a hint of the anti-French sentiment from your post.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by toaster

I appreciate everything you are sharing, but this is all anecdotal at best. If you do go to North-Eastern Ontario, you would almost always hear French being spoken out in the community (Sudbury, Timmins, Hearst, Kap, and most other small communities). Sure, everyone doesn't speak the language, but it is very common. I do get a hint of the anti-French sentiment from your post.

I've had many years of posting exchanges with vid on here to know that he's not like that. I think you misread him.

Regarding his point, it's quite common for certain people in extremely anglophone parts of Canada to come to more bilingual areas, hear even a bit of French, and then get the impression that it's "all French".

The equivalent analogy in Quebec is people from the regions of the province who say that Montreal is "all English".

[vid]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Well, if you joined Manitoba, you could completely forget about highway upgrades. Manitoba is a province that has had over 60 years to finish one single, fixed length freeway and plenty of opportunity to do so. Still not even close to finished. We only just finished twinning the TCH to the Saskatchewan border. It's pathetic.

And social programs...you're still better off in Ontario. Manitoba has plenty of them but we can barely afford what we do have and you'd almost certainly get less money if you joined Mb.

It sounds like the Manitoba PCs are going to implement Harris' "Common Sense Revolution" with their funding cuts, hospital closures and tax decreases, so you're about to join us. Next up is merging multiple school boards into a single board, eliminating dozens of highways (and essentially all highways in any city with more than 10,000 people) and cancelling any provincial support for public transit or urban housing, even if it means un-building stuff that's already under construction.

There will be many strikes and they'll use trickery to "balance" the budget without actually balancing it and then the province will become an economic basket case when the left wing party returns to power. Have fun!

Thunder Bay has only been connected to Toronto by road for about 65 years so we're not too far behind you on the highway upgrades. The only reason we're getting a twinned highway to Nipigon is because the MPP for this area is in cabinet.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've had many years of posting exchanges with vid on here to know that he's not like that. I think you misread him.

Regarding his point, it's quite common for certain people in extremely anglophone parts of Canada to come to more bilingual areas, hear even a bit of French, and then get the impression that it's "all French".

The equivalent analogy in Quebec is people from the regions of the province who say that Montreal is "all English".

That's exactly it. I have no bias at all against Francophone (I speak a bit of French), but a lot of people here do, especially older people, so the existence of French or the metric system is something older people complain about most often. I have a lot of older, conservative customers at my work so I get exposed to a lot of it.

Most people I have met from Sudbury were raised in Francophone households. I would imagine that Sudbury sends a fair amount of people here to fill in positions where speaking French is required (such as government, health care and social service positions) as the local population doesn't fill the demand. Usually if you meet someone who is bilingual they're not from here, very few households speak French at home. Lots of kids are in French Immersion but if they don't use the language when they're out of school that doesn't really help much.

[Loco101]

Oh no, not another language debate!! LOL

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by vid

It sounds like the Manitoba PCs are going to implement Harris' "Common Sense Revolution" with their funding cuts, hospital closures and tax decreases, so you're about to join us. Next up is merging multiple school boards into a single board, eliminating dozens of highways (and essentially all highways in any city with more than 10,000 people) and cancelling any provincial support for public transit or urban housing, even if it means un-building stuff that's already under construction.

There will be many strikes and they'll use trickery to "balance" the budget without actually balancing it and then the province will become an economic basket case when the left wing party returns to power. Have fun!

Thunder Bay has only been connected to Toronto by road for about 65 years so we're not too far behind you on the highway upgrades. The only reason we're getting a twinned highway to Nipigon is because the MPP for this area is in cabinet.

I'm REALLY hoping that the PCs don't win in Ontario for the reasons you listed above. And the PCs are very out of touch with Northern Ontario where they consider Parry Sound and Muskoka to be part of us and they spend lots of money there and say that they are helping the North.

[vid]

The PCs won't win Northern Ontario, we can pretty much guarantee that. If we ever do become a separate province I can pretty much guarantee there won't be a PC Party of Northern Ontario. (Or a Northern Ontario Party for reasons outlined on the previous page.)

Our options will be Left and Lefter.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by vid

The PCs won't win Northern Ontario, we can pretty much guarantee that. If we ever do become a separate province I can pretty much guarantee there won't be a PC Party of Northern Ontario. (Or a Northern Ontario Party for reasons outlined on the previous page.)

Our options will be Left and Lefter.

I agree with everything you wrote.

I can't see the PCs winning any seats in Northern Ontario beyond Nipissing as long as the party has neo-cons and alt-right types in it.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by vid

It sounds like the Manitoba PCs are going to implement Harris' "Common Sense Revolution" with their funding cuts, hospital closures

Correction - no one is closing hospitals in Manitoba. Right now, Winnipeg has more ERs than Ottawa, Edmonton, or even Calgary. That's just stupid, and it hasn't worked.