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  #121  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 6:42 PM
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Detroit? Cool! Do we get NBA, MLB & NFL teams too with all new stadiums?!?
     
     
  #122  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 7:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay in Cowtown View Post
Detroit? Cool! Do we get NBA, MLB & NFL teams too with all new stadiums?!?
Just be careful walking back to your car after an evening game.

(Somebody slap me now!)
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  #123  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 7:18 PM
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Not to worry Calgary if you become a new Detroit.......


Detroit to become Paris of the Midwest?
DETROIT — Could Detroit soon become the Paris of the Midwest, complete with an upscale grocery store on Woodward Avenue and sidewalk cafes sprouting like flowers?

http://windsorstar.com/news/local-ne...of-the-midwest
     
     
  #124  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 8:05 PM
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^ Quite a few decent retailers have moved into downtown and midtown Detroit since that article was written. It's been quite a turnaround.

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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Just be careful walking back to your car after an evening game.

(Somebody slap me now!)
I'll give the honourary slap. The stadiums are located in the safest part of the city. Been to many evening games there...never any problems. There are definitely neighbourhoods in Detroit I wouldn't venture into (day or night) but they're away from downtown and midtown.
     
     
  #125  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 8:12 PM
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^ Quite a few decent retailers have moved into downtown and midtown Detroit since that article was written. It's been quite a turnaround.



I'll give the honourary slap. The stadiums are located in the safest part of the city. Been to many evening games there...never any problems. There are definitely neighbourhoods in Detroit I wouldn't venture into (day or night) but they're away from downtown and midtown.
I know. No bitterness about the slap.
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  #126  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by speedog View Post
Are these people and industries actually setting up shop and living in the actual city of Detroit or in one of it's suburbs?

Calgary, with it's somewhat unique uni-city setup, just really doesn't have the suburbs that Detroit has. Calgary really only has two true suburbs, the cities of Airdrie and Chestermere, and both are far from being large enough to even remotely accommodate a great percentage of Calgarians or Calgary businesses that might be wanting to flee Calgary.

Sure those two cities would likely would love to see such a scenario but when the two of them combined don't even equate to a tenth of Calgary's population then one can see how unfeasible it would be.

To compare Calgary and Detroit, the city of Detroit's population is only about 16% of it's metro population. The city of Calgary is probably 83 to 90% of it's metro population, two very different scenarios.
The automotive investments are going into both the city and metro region, but the residential, office, restaurant and retail investments I'm talking about are all going into just the city, mainly the DT core, Midtown, New Center, Corktown and the East Riverfront. The apartment vacancy rate in the DT core is near 0%, and prices are rising quickly due to demand and lack of supply.
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  #127  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 12:01 AM
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It's going to take many years for Oil to recover if it ever does with the ever expanding look for new energy sources and discovery of huge shale deposits in the USA. Calgary's quest to be the head office white collar lets not get our hands dirty city will feel the effects for many years to come. A good chunk of their downtown towers sit empty they did not diversify into to much else . A small university .

On the other Hand you have Edmonton which has a ton of diversity lower Oil prices has bad spinoffs but good ones as well for the city as it's large manufacturing of Oil into petrochemicals products becomes cheaper with lower prices and more exports due to a lower dollar also the refineries will keep chugging along with the workers to maintain it. . They also have diversified heavy into pharmaceuticals labs research tourism entertainment and of course a world class university and both federal and of course being the capital government jobs.

I see a situation taking place like what happened in Australia between Sydney and Melbourne for years Sydney was booming and vastly out populating Melbourne but Melbourne was way more diversified city and once again is overtaking Sydney. But Calgary pretty much thru all their goodies in one basket and dire years ahead for the city imo.
     
     
  #128  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 2:57 AM
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Why just Calgary, is Edmonton any more diversified? What about Red Deer, Grande Prairie, Fort Saint John etc?
     
     
  #129  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 3:16 AM
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According to Skyisnolimit, Edmonton is super diversified as long as petroleum products are still being used!
     
     
  #130  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 7:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Just be careful walking back to your car after an evening game.

(Somebody slap me now!)
Hahahahaha!
     
     
  #131  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 8:26 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Mostly Toronto, Vancouver, and maybe Montreal and Halifax too.
Halifax is a bit far out, I think most Calgarians are still more
likely to move to Ontario than as far as Nova Scotia.
     
     
  #132  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 8:48 AM
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[QUOTE=Rollerstud98;7785296] Edmonton manufactures a hell of a lot more than just petrochemicals . Tons raging from agricultural to flipping Hvac systems . Oil collapsed completely Edmonton would survive a hell of a lot better than Calgary.
     
     
  #133  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Why just Calgary, is Edmonton any more diversified? What about Red Deer, Grande Prairie, Fort Saint John etc?
Of course all of these cities will be at risk when oil is no longer the #1 energy resource, but same goes for Alberta, Newfoundland and Canada as a whole.

It was discussed more at the beginning of the thread, but Fort McMurray is probably the most at risk city in North America when oil does begin its final downturn, simply because it loses its main industry and because of its relative isolation.
     
     
  #134  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 1:43 PM
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Detroit's downtown office vacancy rate is one thirds of Calgary. It's possible things will reverse and everything that has created this situation in Calgary will be quickly forgotten. What if it doesn't? What if oil companies take on a more conservative approach to corporate real estate than maintaining a 5 year surplus on space? What happens to all that overbuilt spaces especially in the lower class?

Calgary won't be the next Detroit. It may boom like crazy in the coming years but, this excess space could last decades in the form of locked up, dark buildings.
     
     
  #135  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 2:58 PM
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Just out of curiosity what are some of Calgary's secondary industries?
Construction excluded.
     
     
  #136  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 3:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Just out of curiosity what are some of Calgary's secondary industries?
Construction excluded.
Aren't there something like 50,000 people in Calgary employed in manufacturing? I don't know where that's from, but it seems familiar to me somehow.
     
     
  #137  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Just out of curiosity what are some of Calgary's secondary industries?
Construction excluded.
Calgary has a number of primary, secondary, and tertiary industries to fall back on as oil unwinds. Agriculture, technology, transportation & logistics, finance, manufacturing. There are is plenty of ways to spread the growth in Calgary, and it is very safe to say ALL industries outside oil and gas have been stymied in one way or another by oil and gas pushing labour and real estate costs up, making it artificially costlier to do business is all these sectors.
     
     
  #138  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Boris2k7 View Post
As geotag alluded to previously, one of the problems keeping Calgary from attracting more companies has been that O&G companies shot the cost of rents and labour through the roof. On the other hand we do have a talented workforce, but nobody needs a bunch of petroleum engineers (I still can't believe they offer courses for these at our schools). And of course Calgary has a ways to go in attracting creative industries -- the culture is not there yet.
There is a very long history of companies who have been forced out of downtown due to rising costs, moved back in a previous bust, and then were kicked out again. Many of these firms are extremely leery of a temporary short term move back only to have to relocate again once energy firms start driving the price up again.

Moving an entire office can be a hugely disruptive event that has the potential to be highly damaging to morale as people need to figure out an entire new schedule and route and system to get into work, especially if it involves negotiating downtown traffic.

Much of the vacancy in the downtown core right now can be attributed to the ghosts of Christmas past coming back to haunt downtown landlords who valued absolute dollar gains over having a diversified portfolio of commercial real estate tenants.

I really wish people would stop the pity party for those poor downtown empty office towers. If the price comes down, and companies can sign on long term lease agreements at reasonable prices that make sense for industries outside oil and gas, they will be filled. Commercial landlords don't need anyone's pity.
     
     
  #139  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 4:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
Calgary has a number of primary, secondary, and tertiary industries to fall back on as oil unwinds. Agriculture, technology, transportation & logistics, finance, manufacturing. There are is plenty of ways to spread the growth in Calgary, and it is very safe to say ALL industries outside oil and gas have been stymied in one way or another by oil and gas pushing labour and real estate costs up, making it artificially costlier to do business is all these sectors.
stymied now. back in the day, most of them profited as high priced vendors for the oil companies.
     
     
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