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  #481  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2009, 7:43 AM
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As we all know the purpose of these buildings is to replace the office space that was lost as well as rebuilding the Lower Manhattan skyline. I'm confident, now that I take time to think, that those aspects will be seen by those who matter in this project (Larry) and towers 2 & 3 will be a reality as shown. Though I'm no expert in the development process of the WTC, nor do I have any say, my optimistic comments mirror the term realistic.
Anyone who thinks new office space demand won't return Downtown is nuts to begin with, but you know how it goes with the media and the naysayers. As for towers 2 and 3, let's not forget there's also a Tower 5 to deal with. These are the last sites for major new office construction Downtown, with it's millions and millions square feet of aging office space.
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  #482  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2009, 4:10 PM
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with it's millions and millions square feet of aging office space.
And that is very true. Many of those boxes along the East River, the row of 300-500' boxes on Water Street, and so on were built to meet expectations that have long been revitalized. If I'm correct I believe even some of those mid-rise buildings on Water Street have been converted into residentials because they simply cannot serve a practical purpose in regards to office space. The point is what is not in demand today will without question be tomorrows demand. And that tomorrow is not that far away depending on how fast the commercial office market comes back around.

Not to mention buildings such as 70 Pine, 40 Wall, 20 Exchange, & 1 Wall, all of which IMO only have a handful of decades left before a residential conversion will likely be the fate. New space is indeed needed and the new GS building is prime example. When you compare their current HQ to their new one you can clearly see what I mean. New more practical space is an essential, which towers 2, 3, and 5 will have to provide for Downtown.
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  #483  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 12:02 AM
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The point is what is not in demand today will without question be tomorrows demand. And that tomorrow is not that far away depending on how fast the commercial office market comes back around.
Right. Although the economy is bad now, and some office space has taken a hit, people forget that the vast majority of businesses will remain in business. And they won't want to do it on the sidewalk or office space dating back to the stone age.
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  #484  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 1:53 AM
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These are the last sites for major new office construction Downtown, with it's millions and millions square feet of aging office space.
I wonder if it will ever come to deconstructing some of the older towers to make way for even more modern office space?

In the meantime, I hope Silverstein remains firm in his goal of being the Father of the New World Trade Center.
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  #485  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 2:24 AM
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I wonder if it will ever come to deconstructing some of the older towers to make way for even more modern office space?
I depends on which buildings, but talking in practical terms I think the next prime business district will shift to the Westside. At the point once the WTC is all said and done, Lower Manhattan will be a 'what you see is what you get' type of deal. The Trade Center and GS will probably be the last of their kind in terms of large office buildings Downtown.

Personally I think they should stretch BPC up a few more blocks, but that's for other conversation...
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  #486  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 9:12 AM
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I depends on which buildings, but talking in practical terms I think the next prime business district will shift to the Westside.
The city's next business district expansion will be on the west side, but it won't have as much office space as Midtown or Downtown. Actually just a drop in the bucket copared to those two districts. But when all is said and done, there is always the "downtown" market, and the "midtown" market. The west side will be another alternative, but it won't replace Downtown. After all WTC sites are completed and pretty much spoken for, the prospect of more demolition Downtown returns - especially considering how much older things will be then.
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  #487  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 2:18 PM
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^^^ But in terms of demolition, are we talking some of the buildings dating back to the early 1900's, or the more modern boxes, say on Water Street, that no long really serve a practical purpose for commercial space(?). The aspect about demolition that raises questions to me is the grid of Lower Manhattan, and how the plots where most of these 'older' buildings currently are could not tolerate a building the size of say GS. If anything I think we'll see more residential conversions in the coming decades for some of these older buildings. Such instances have already took place.
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  #488  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 2:33 PM
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^^^ But in terms of demolition, are we talking some of the buildings dating back to the early 1900's]

Most likely the older buildings that don't really alow for open floor spaces. Remember the planned NYSE tower on Wall st? An entire block was going for that one.

[quote If anything I think we'll see more residential conversions in the coming decades for some of these older buildings.
There will be that as well, but remember, this is first and foremost a business district. They're not investing all of this money into a new WTC just to see the business district evaporate to other locations.
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  #489  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 12:46 AM
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The city's next business district expansion will be on the west side, but it won't have as much office space as Midtown or Downtown. Actually just a drop in the bucket copared to those two districts. But when all is said and done, there is always the "downtown" market, and the "midtown" market. The west side will be another alternative, but it won't replace Downtown. After all WTC sites are completed and pretty much spoken for, the prospect of more demolition Downtown returns - especially considering how much older things will be then.
There is still plenty of underused land in Downtown in its northeast corner, around Fulton St/west of South Street Seaport/east of City Hall Park/south of the Brooklyn Bridge (the few blocks around Gehry's Beekman Tower, essentially). Though the area does have some truly historically and/or architecturally valuable buildings, much stuff there is lowrise to midrise crud from mid-20th century, when the only viable construction in that seedy area was cheap housing and office stock of subpar quality.
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  #490  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 2:25 AM
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^^^ That would be a realistic and practical option. As for new office buildings in the heart of the Financial District, I think 60 Wall Street was the last to march to that beat.
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  #491  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 4:12 PM
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There is still plenty of underused land in Downtown in its northeast corner, around Fulton St/west of South Street Seaport/east of City Hall Park/south of the Brooklyn Bridge (the few blocks around Gehry's Beekman Tower, essentially).
That area will never be rezoned for large commercial construction, you're talking about a complex of residential towers (not happening). Besides, those other small blocks in the area are too small for large commercial building floorplates. Beyond that, it's fenced in by the Seaport itself, the Brooklyn Bridge to the north, City Hall park, etc. Take a walk around those narrow alleys, and you will see what I mean. The financial district will either expand north to Tribeca (also not likely), or build where it currently is. But make no mistake, either scenario will involve demolition.
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  #492  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2009, 1:17 AM
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I thought I would spice up this thread with my very poorly done model of this building. I made it in art class (luckily the teacher had no idea what the building looked like so I didn't fail, grade-wise.)

Also, Spoiler Alert: I didn't add that extension of the base and the back of the building because I only had 2 45 minute periods to cut everything up and glue it all together.

Also: extra spoiler alert: Even without the base, this is still not very accurate at all. I know this; feel free to say it anyway though.

I think for that amount of time I did pretty well.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34727267@N08/
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  #493  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2009, 2:08 AM
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  #494  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2009, 12:45 PM
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I think for that amount of time I did pretty well.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34727267@N08/
This is not a bad angle...

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  #495  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2009, 7:17 PM
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That area will never be rezoned for large commercial construction, you're talking about a complex of residential towers (not happening). Besides, those other small blocks in the area are too small for large commercial building floorplates. Beyond that, it's fenced in by the Seaport itself, the Brooklyn Bridge to the north, City Hall park, etc. Take a walk around those narrow alleys, and you will see what I mean. The financial district will either expand north to Tribeca (also not likely), or build where it currently is. But make no mistake, either scenario will involve demolition.
I never suggested demolition of South Bridge Towers, which would indeed be hard to pull off. As for the rest of the area (not including the Seaport), the basic street size and layout is very similar to Downtown's core arround Wall Street, and there's plenty of large (both in sizee and height) buildings there, and even the smaller lots can still squeeze in towers of considerable height (e.g. Nobu)
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  #496  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2009, 9:03 PM
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There are still lots of surface lots in Tribeca, also.
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  #497  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2009, 1:24 PM
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There are still lots of surface lots in Tribeca, also.
You'd be starting a war....
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  #498  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2009, 1:27 PM
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As for the rest of the area (not including the Seaport), the basic street size and layout is very similar to Downtown's core arround Wall Street, and there's plenty of large (both in sizee and height) buildings there, and even the smaller lots can still squeeze in towers of considerable height (e.g. Nobu)
You have to remember that those older towers Downtown were built for a different age, which is why some of them are better converted to residential. The towers with larger floorplates have more room. The only area where you could possibly squeeze more office development is along Fulton Street - itself the focus of a new initiative Downtown (residential, dining, entertainment, etc.). There just simply isn't the room down there, short of demolishing some of the older towers.
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  #499  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2009, 7:44 PM
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I think he's talking about the area along Nassau Street between Chase and the Brooklyn Bridge. There are a few ugly mid-rise buildings from the 60's that seem under built. There are also a few small parking lots that could accommodate development right transfers for slender hotels and residential towers.
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  #500  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2009, 1:48 AM
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I think he's talking about the area along Nassau Street between Chase and the Brooklyn Bridge. There are a few ugly mid-rise buildings from the 60's that seem under built. There are also a few small parking lots that could accommodate development right transfers for slender hotels and residential towers.
We're talking about expansion for commercial towers. After the WTC redevelopment, there isn't anything left in the financial district. There's about 800,000 sf left over at 55 Water St for development (but not on the plaza). About 1 msf on Fulton St (the site of the transit center, where they again refuse to put a tower on top). After that, there's nothing unless the city wants to clear up some of the older towers there, and consolidate some sites for larger office construction. But it will be extremely hard to get that for today's office tower.

Andrea Bez




Some recent pics from along Fulton Street...







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