Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

Uhhh... yeah images are at that link. Your browser/phone/comp sux?

Tried it on my work computer and my home computer and still nothing.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

If it is Arrow Press/old DV8 is it expected that it will include some of the structures on 100 South and West Temple? That would be a damn shame for any of those buildings to go away. Is there an functional reason that the Rocky Mountain Power Plaza could not be developed if RWP were willing? Meaning that plaza doesn't have anything below it such as critical power distribution components? Also that old Power and Light building behind it isn't a substation, is it?

Is that huge gravel lot just south of those buildings on West Temple part of the same ownership? If so, I see no reason why that wouldn't be large enough to support a hotel on its own. I too would be sad to see any of those historic buildings go, considering that big gravel pit, and the parking lot on the other side in the middle of the 100 South block next to that ugly Zions Bank building. That said, isn't Caffe Molise moving? That isn't a good omen in my eyes.

[Marvland]

PRETTY BIRD AND LAST COURSE ON REGENT ARE OPEN! Huge news for foodies. I've had the pleasure of tasting previews of Pretty Bird's chicken and it's an absolute game-changer. Viet Pham is a genius. So stoked about our local food and drink scene: https://www.sltrib.com/artsliving/fo...alt-lake-city/

[Pencil]

http://www.builderonline.com/land/lo...e-new-denver_o

[scottharding]

Salt Lake as submitted a formal bid to host the NBA All-Star game in 2022 or 2023.

http://www.nba.com/jazz/news/jazz-su...ter_allstarbid

Let's hope the Utah Gov and Utah Legislature don't sabotage these hopes with their asinine policies and law making (the .05 legal alcohol limit is a step in the wrong direction).

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by scottharding

Salt Lake as submitted a formal bid to host the NBA All-Star game in 2022 or 2023.

http://www.nba.com/jazz/news/jazz-su...ter_allstarbid

Let's hope the Utah Gov and Utah Legislature don't sabotage these hopes with their asinine policies and law making (the .05 legal alcohol limit is a step in the wrong direction).

The new DUI law is justifiable from a scientific perspective since the studies seem to clearly indicate that impairment begins at .05, but where I would change it, is have it be a much lesser crime and punishment then hitting .08 or above. The level of impairment should correspond with the severity of the punishment.

As a side note, I was shocked to discover that .05 is the most common legal limit in most European countries, so I have a hard time hearing the complaint that this is some crazy idea that would only happen in Utah. I admit I am biased in this area because I have lost 3 friends to drunken driving and have seen the devastating effects.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

I admit I am biased in this area because I have lost 3 friends to drunken driving and have seen the devastating effects.

Oh geez. I'm sorry, man.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

The new DUI law is justifiable from a scientific perspective since the studies seem to clearly indicate that impairment begins at .05, but where I would change it, is have it be a much lesser crime and punishment then hitting .08 or above. The level of impairment should correspond with the severity of the punishment.

As a side note, I was shocked to discover that .05 is the most common legal limit in most European countries, so I have a hard time hearing the complaint that this is some crazy idea that would only happen in Utah. I admit I am biased in this area because I have lost 3 friends to drunken driving and have seen the devastating effects.

Truly sorry for your loss. I can imagine the BAC of the offending parties was not .05. The studies are bullshit. Almost every statistic involving alcohol related accidents is untrustworthy. An example is this: you have a beer after work, get in your car and a sober mother broadsides you. There you go! "Alcohol related accident". The truth is the NTSB has had a boner for .05 for ever. They targeted the lowest-of-all hanging fruit, Utah, to be the first place and the pasty wax figurines with poor-fitting suits on the hill complied like good little doggies.

I always hear about the Europeans and Canadians etc. I was at the Senate hearing yesterday and, when asked what the effects of this law will be on the hospitality industry, one of the old jowly white muppets on the stand pointed to Calgary saying: "I was in Calgary last week and they have a .05 BAC limit and I saw them partying all over the place!". To which I responded, "Hey that's a great idea! Let's do what Calgary, the rest of Canada and most of Europe does. You can drink when you're 16-19 there too, there are no restrictions on booze shots or proximity requirements and you have real draft beer! EXCELLENT IDEA!".

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by stayinginformed

If it looks anything like The Crawford they did in Union Station, I would be ecstatic. Link to the gallery here.

I really hope(kinda doubt) that they will paint over the grand hall in white. That would be a bummer.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

The new DUI law is justifiable from a scientific perspective since the studies seem to clearly indicate that impairment begins at .05, but where I would change it, is have it be a much lesser crime and punishment then hitting .08 or above. The level of impairment should correspond with the severity of the punishment.

As a side note, I was shocked to discover that .05 is the most common legal limit in most European countries, so I have a hard time hearing the complaint that this is some crazy idea that would only happen in Utah. I admit I am biased in this area because I have lost 3 friends to drunken driving and have seen the devastating effects.

Right, but in most places in Europe you never have to drive if you don’t want to, or are impaired.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by Marvland

Truly sorry for your loss. I can imagine the BAC of the offending parties was not .05. The studies are bullshit. Almost every statistic involving alcohol related accidents is untrustworthy. An example is this: you have a beer after work, get in your car and a sober mother broadsides you. There you go! "Alcohol related accident". The truth is the NTSB has had a boner for .05 for ever. They targeted the lowest-of-all hanging fruit, Utah, to be the first place and the pasty wax figurines with poor-fitting suits on the hill complied like good little doggies.

I always hear about the Europeans and Canadians etc. I was at the Senate hearing yesterday and, when asked what the effects of this law will be on the hospitality industry, one of the old jowly white muppets on the stand pointed to Calgary saying: "I was in Calgary last week and they have a .05 BAC limit and I saw them partying all over the place!". To which I responded, "Hey that's a great idea! Let's do what Calgary, the rest of Canada and most of Europe does. You can drink when you're 16-19 there too, there are no restrictions on booze shots or proximity requirements and you have real draft beer! EXCELLENT IDEA!".

Do you work in the hospitality industry or just a concerned citizen? You sound more familiar with the studies then I am, but the ones I was thinking of when I wrote what I did were more testing cognitive function and motor skills in a laboratory setting and seeing at what point alcohol negatively impacts that. Again, I cant speak how rigorous these studies are, but many European countries seem to be persuaded. On the flip side, the Tribune had a great article several weeks ago from, I think, Robert Gehrke and he laid out all the motor vehicle accidents for the last ten years where the person was reported to have had a BAC < .08 and it was interesting because I think I found one where alcohol probably was the cause, but every other the person had other drugs in their system or something else that clearly caused it and at most alcohol didn't help the situation.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Right, but in most places in Europe you never have to drive if you don’t want to, or are impaired.

In the era of Uber and Lyft this argument doesn't hold water. Also there are plenty of rural and suburbanish areas in countries such as France that make driving almost a must.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

In the era of Uber and Lyft this argument doesn't hold water. Also there are plenty of rural and suburbanish areas in countries such as France that make driving almost a must.

Not everyone can afford Uber and Lyft. Most European transit is quite affordable.

[Liberty Wellsian]

We should all be down for the warning thing between .05 and .08. It should be recorded(insurance), short term loss of license(a week?), but not criminally prosecuted. People should be told "hey, you're pushing it buddy" but we shouldn't treat it as if it's the same thing as being plowed. Currently we do, that's a huge problem that will do more harm than good.

[Comrade]

Agreed. The DUI laws are way too extreme and need to be tiered like speeding laws. Speeding causes more traffic deaths in America than drunk driving and yet, often, a speeding ticket is essentially a slap on the wrist. If you're blowing .05-.08, it should be treated similarly to going ten or so over the limit.

Could you imagine treating speeders with the same approach? You're arrested, car impounded, license revoked and forced to pay thousands of dollars in lawyer fees because you happened to be going 10 over the legal speed limit?

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

Do you work in the hospitality industry or just a concerned citizen? You sound more familiar with the studies then I am, but the ones I was thinking of when I wrote what I did were more testing cognitive function and motor skills in a laboratory setting and seeing at what point alcohol negatively impacts that. Again, I cant speak how rigorous these studies are, but many European countries seem to be persuaded. On the flip side, the Tribune had a great article several weeks ago from, I think, Robert Gehrke and he laid out all the motor vehicle accidents for the last ten years where the person was reported to have had a BAC < .08 and it was interesting because I think I found one where alcohol probably was the cause, but every other the person had other drugs in their system or something else that clearly caused it and at most alcohol didn't help the situation.

I am in the hospitality world but also do a bunch of Real Estate stuff. Impairment begins at .01 but these are all just numbers. .01, .05, .08 do nothing to measure impairment. I do know that the stats are packed by years or neo-prohibitionist garbage. As I said, if we want to be like Europe, then lets let 18 year-olds drink and get rid of arbitrary, useless blue laws. Then let's talk about .05. Truly, I own a bar and am not really against the concept of .05 as I am against the state's sanctimonious and hypocritical garbage alcoholic beverage laws. Taken as a whole, they hurt us. Look at it like this: Alcohol is possibly a $1.5 billion dollar industry (hard numbers are tough to get but that's another thread), and it is truly the goose that laid the golden egg for our budget. Take booze away and we are swimming in debt and kids go hungry at school. That money is super greasy and delicious but they sure do like to tsk tsk it.

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Not everyone can afford Uber and Lyft. Most European transit is quite affordable.

IMO if you can go out and afford $7 beers, you should be able to afford a Lyft or Uber. Finding an alternative to driving impaired should always be part of the game plan and budget. I have many European and Australian friends and they trip out that we drink then go hit an 80 mph freeway, and I tend to agree.

I think the alcohol purchase laws here are very silly but the stricter DUI limit does not bother me, especially with how bad even sober drivers are.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by jetlag

IMO if you can go out and afford $7 beers, you should be able to afford a Lyft or Uber. Finding an alternative to driving impaired should always be part of the game plan and budget. I have many European and Australian friends and they trip out that we drink then go hit an 80 mph freeway, and I tend to agree.

I think the alcohol purchase laws here are very silly but the stricter DUI limit does not bother me, especially with how bad even sober drivers are.

Yeah, they trip out because they live closer in to the center of town and they take a train or bus to go home.

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Yeah, they trip out because they live closer in to the center of town and they take a train or bus to go home.

In most of urban Europe yes, but Australia and rural Europe not as much (nor much of Canada i'd imagine). The times I've been someone was always a DD since public transportation was not always an option, the same way it isn't really an option here, where everyone lives in the suburbs. I'm not sure if it's changed much since the age of Uber/Lyft but as a broke kid, I still managed to have a ton of fun and drink plenty with other broke kids and never once did anyone drive after drinking. It's just in their culture to not do it. Americans have a hard time letting go of it. All of my buddies here are pissed about this law but it really doesn't seem to bother me. Probably because i've seen it work in other places.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by jetlag

In most of urban Europe yes, but Australia and rural Europe not as much (nor much of Canada i'd imagine). The times I've been someone was always a DD since public transportation was not always an option, the same way it isn't really an option here, where everyone lives in the suburbs. I'm not sure if it's changed much since the age of Uber/Lyft but as a broke kid, I still managed to have a ton of fun and drink plenty with other broke kids and never once did anyone drive after drinking. It's just in their culture to not do it. Americans have a hard time letting go of it. All of my buddies here are pissed about this law but it really doesn't seem to bother me. Probably because i've seen it work in other places.

it's apples to oranges. Europe is not nearly as punitive as we are. I haven't looked it up but I'm almost certain that the punishment 4.05 in Europe is going to be less than the punishment for .05 in Utah. Europe doesn't have millions of people behind bars, primarily minorities. I'm sorry but I just cannot get behind adding more s*** to the shitpile that we pile on poor people and minorities in this country.

Yes I understand that the law itself isn't racist but we all have a pretty good idea of what's going to happen when this actually hits courtrooms.