Dundas and Richmond

[ericlewis91]

Anything going into the still empty building at the corner ?

[MolsonExport]

So far, just panhandlers.

Has the bongo drum guy been about this year?

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

So far, just panhandlers.

Has the bongo drum guy been about this year?

Oh yes, he's been there almost daily. If he's not outside he's usually inside the adjacent Starbucks.

There's also no shortage of people peddling money for charity, approaching almost everyone. Usually it's the Red Cross, although in the week leading up to the G20 summit they were mysteriously replaced by Greenpeace.

[MolsonExport]

I used to pass through that intersection almost daily on rollerblades...in the summer of 2005, bongo drum guy was there everyday. Now I am seldom at that part of downtown, except passing through in the car.

[That_Chris]

London Transit has got to find an alternative to the buses all stopping at that intersection. It just makes the whole thing a loud busy mess. You practically have to fight your way through the people waiting for a bus.

Or at the very least, all the busses should arrive at the same time like they do in Guelph or most other cities. Having to wait to transfer for up to 20 minutes every time you want to take the bus is pretty piss poor.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by That_Chris

London Transit has got to find an alternative to the buses all stopping at that intersection. It just makes the whole thing a loud busy mess. You practically have to fight your way through the people waiting for a bus.

Yes our city is quite poor when it comes to dealing with DnR buses. It's been suggested by just about everyone that LTC run westbound buses on Queen/eastbound on King to alleviate this problem. Spread out the people but still within a close distance.

Of course London/LTC continues to twiddle its thumbs on the issue, fearing the wrath of those who are too lazy to walk an extra block to catch their bus...

Instead the LTC focuses on "real" important issues like sending milk run buses to Lambeth to get both the of the people out there

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

Instead the LTC focuses on "real" important issues like sending milk run buses to Lambeth to get both the of the people out there

As someone who lives in a bedroom community like Lambeth, I would love to have LTC bus service, but I live outside the city limits. I'm not sure how busy that bus is, but I'm sure there is a real demand for it, otherwise it wouldn't exist. Encouraging transit links to outside bedroom communities is one of the best things a transit system can do, although I do understand that London doesn't really have too many that would benefit. However, Lambeth, Dorchester, St. Thomas, and Komoka/Kilworth are ones that I think would.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

As someone who lives in a bedroom community like Lambeth, I would love to have LTC bus service, but I live outside the city limits. I'm not sure how busy that bus is, but I'm sure there is a real demand for it, otherwise it wouldn't exist. Encouraging transit links to outside bedroom communities is one of the best things a transit system can do, although I do understand that London doesn't really have too many that would benefit. However, Lambeth, Dorchester, St. Thomas, and Komoka/Kilworth are ones that I think would.

It would be great if there was a reasonably-priced way for commuters to get back and forth between London and St. Thomas.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

As someone who lives in a bedroom community like Lambeth, I would love to have LTC bus service, but I live outside the city limits. I'm not sure how busy that bus is, but I'm sure there is a real demand for it, otherwise it wouldn't exist. Encouraging transit links to outside bedroom communities is one of the best things a transit system can do, although I do understand that London doesn't really have too many that would benefit. However, Lambeth, Dorchester, St. Thomas, and Komoka/Kilworth are ones that I think would.

If it were profitable then there would be no issues about it. LTC had a route to Lambeth like 10+ years ago, and was cancelled due to lack of use and profitability. Honestly if your living in Lambeth your tied to your car, the LTC route only brings you to Westmount I think, from which you have to wait longer to catch another bus to wherever

In the end it comes down to the money, all of the time, which is something that council doesn't seem to learn. LTC could make more monye having express routes on major, that actually moved people quickly around town and improve the image of public transit as being comparable to private car.

Until the LTC can have comparable times and have better service, like in D n R we'll be tied to the car!

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

It would be great if there was a reasonably-priced way for commuters to get back and forth between London and St. Thomas.

Well now there is! Behold, the $600 Volvo 850! That's right, 850 for 600! Only seventy cents per model number digit!!

http://london.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehic...AdIdZ319833668

"Needs some repairs". Bah, rubbish I say. It's probably just useless crap like the radio, odometer or fuel gauge that's not working. "Good for parts"? Nonsense! It's good for driving is what it's good for. These things do fine in Sweden's 10-month winter so they'll do fine in Ontario's 11.5-month winter. If stretch the truth far enough on your insurance forms then it's pretty cheap to cover as well. Best part is the government can actually make money off this stunning new transport initiative by charging drivers a licensing fee and extracting bri-, er, I mean fees, to have the car "pass" emissions tests.

[Wharn]

Sorry for the wheeler-dealer pitch, getting back on topic...

[ForestryW]

City looks to open welfare office in east, south London

Link

The city is looking to move some business from the city's swamped welfare office out of downtown London – and core area businesses are thrilled.

The city's finance and administration committee meeting will discuss a report this week stating the city will start talks with the London Library Board on a lease for space in its east London branch for a satellite Ontario Works office, traffic from Market Tower at Dundas and Richmond.

“Yahoo,” quipped Bob Usher, chairperson of the London Downtown Business Asssocaiton.

“It takes away a concentration of individuals who seem to have the perception of being trouble and it brings service back to the community where they are from.”

The downtown has lost at least two national retailers who were looking to locate in the core, but changed their minds due to transient traffic at Market Tower where Ontario Works is located, said Usher.

“Its been a deterrent. We have asked the city to look at this for some time and it seems, finally to be coming to fruition,” he added.

The report also states that more than 11 per cent of London homes receive Ontario Works (welfare) and 26 per cent in east London.

...

Ontario Works in east London

– 2016 Dundas St. E., space now occupied by YMCA as a day care area.

– It is 5,500 sq. ft., could house 25 Ontario Works staff.

– It could serve 2,000 clients and is located on a major bus route.

– It would serve an area from Highbury Ave. to the west, Veterans Memorial Parkway to the east, Oxford street to the north, Hamilton Road to the south.

[bolognium]

Definitely a step in the right direction, but I have my doubts that we'll see much change. I personally think the main problem is the buses using Dundas and Richmond as a makeshift terminal. I lived in a different city during the transit strike, so I don't have any firsthand knowledge of how it affected DnR. However, many of my friends said the intersection seemed noticeably nicer.

I think it's going to take a lot more than just shifting the welfare offices around, but this is certainly a start.

[K85]

They just reeeeeeeeally need to build a proper bus terminal downtown...

Went back packing in Europe last year, and went to the major cities, and minor ones, and they had tremendous looking centralized, and efficient terminals with either light rail, rapid bus, or regular bus. People moved from platform to platform with ease, and it was easily integrated with the local bus stops as well. There wasn't over crowding, there wasn't vandalism as there were police patrolling at random intervals, and even as a traveler, I found it easier to navigate from place to place.

[londoner_abroad]

Originally Posted by bolognium

I personally think the main problem is the buses using Dundas and Richmond as a makeshift terminal. I lived in a different city during the transit strike, so I don't have any firsthand knowledge of how it affected DnR. However, many of my friends said the intersection seemed noticeably nicer.

Your friend was right, as a person who frequented the downtown on a daily basis before i left, D&R was much nicer and quieter during the strike. However, did you ever think that a reason for that could have been because a large percentage of people who receive OW take the bus to get there and then just stay? but with the bus strike the had to find other means like bike, walk or taxi and since taxis are more expensive hence less people hanging around - now if the busses become re routed and less people hang around then I was wrong but I think there is a strong relationship between the people who get OW and busses - its not just the busses, moving the busses wont solve the problem if D&R is still the destination. If OW were to move out of the core the people receiving OW would be somewhere else receiving OW and hanging out.

And on the comment of the bus terminal - As a person studying Urban Design in Europe I have to agree that Bus Terminal are convenient and work very well in Europe. However I do not believe that it would be a great success for Downtown for 3 reasons.

1. The amount of space a terminal would need, according to an LTC report, is about 3/4 of the size of one of our downtown city blocks - do we really want to decimate another city block? think galleria...

2. Yes they seem to work in Europe... But Europeans have never turned their backs on their City Centres - they also haven't decided that the car is king and that malls are the main destination for shopping and entertainment. I am currently living in a city of 350,000 in NorthEast England where its just as cold, and more wet then back home in London but people still flock to the city's main street at all hours of the day, everyday. By all this I mean if we were to direct all of the LTC busses to a terminal then people, transferring, would most likely stay within that terminal and not move around the downtown. Hence killing more of what little business we have in the core. Right now with the busses having a "street terminal" there are more chances of people walking by the Starbucks or Tim Hortons or any coffee shop, restaurant, shop and potentially buy something they see. If all the exchange of people were to happen within a building it would kill the feet on the street. Why does it work in Europe or other larger cities? its because they have the critical mass that already live and work in the downtown and those people support the businesses.

3. Because cities, in Canada, like kitchener and sudbury say they regret building them.

So whats my solution? Why not create a loop using lets say Queens, Talbot, King or York, and Wellington. This way most busses would go on this loop that would touch the JLC/Market area, the train station and most of the larger offices downtown while leaving Dundas and Richmond to pedestrians and cars. I think going a step further it would be better to have only LRT/BRT
coming downtown from 4 or 5 prongs of the city and have the regular LTC busses feed into the system.

Sorry for the long reply, its pretty much a summary of what I wanted to say for a long time I just never really had the time. I am up for a healthy debate so I cant wait for the responses.

[K85]

The balance between foot traffic and vehicle traffic is, as much as obvious, important to local shops. Granted it would mean less people walking in front of these places, but at the same time, it would also mean that I wouldn't mind driving my ass downtown to walk around, as a suburb guy. I hate the amount of people that wait at bus stops down town. It's a massive pain in the ass to do any shopping during the day or early evening around there.

Amsterdam had closed off streets during certain times of the day, and those streets had retractable posts. This was amazing to walk around in.
Zurich had a few plots of centralized traffic for buses to do their bidding.
Warsaw, same boat as Zurich.
(Think it was) Lisse in Holland, same as Zurich.
Vienna had a really good depot, though can't remember where specifically it was near.
And I went to several other cities and countries, but those were the ones that stood out in terms of size and population density.

Point being, these depots were, in my eyes, near important places of business, and small shops. Those places did fine, had patrons, and had, what again in my eyes, seemed as being success. I think the balance would need to be struck in terms of how many buses use the terminal, what stops would be allowed to stay near there, and what stops would be routed through the area. I don't see it as a replacement for specific stops aside for DnR. This should be moved there, and other stops should be able to join at the terminal and use it as a transfer point for passengers.

Personal experience in a lot of touristy areas and not-so-touristy areas have shown me what I think would work wonders for downtown.

[north 42]

We had a new bus terminal built in downtown Windsor a couple of years ago, and it's been a huge success. It's bright and open with super high ceilings and tonnes of glass, much nicer than the old decrepit one we had before.

Now the area around the terminal is being developed into a 65 million dollar aquatics centre and water park, with a new central library branch by the art gallery nextdoor, as well as a possible new museum in the area as well. We are very happy with our new terminal, as it is new and bright and is a plus for our residents and the greyhound buses that go there. We don't have any sketchy or undesirable people hanging out there either, which is a nice surprise.

It sounds like you guys up in London could really use a terminal in your downtown. If it's done properly, it could be something the city could be proud of, and make your city centre that much better.

[Wharn]

There's no doubt the current setup is wretched, problem is nobody knows how we're going to go about replacing it. Having something near the Greyhound terminal or the VIA station would be cool since everything would be centralized in one hub, but both are located just a little too far south. Personally I wouldn't mind that since it would keep the riff-raff out of the main retail strip, but considering how much people complained about having to walk another block to King I'm certain they'd really bitch if we forced them to walk two whole blocks to York.

And that creates a problem since York is the only semi-sensible place to put a terminal. Everywhere else would be a logistical nightmare; Dundas is too built-up and both Queens and King are one-way. Also, unlike Windsor, the market, art gallery, central library, etc all developed before any consideration was given to a transit hub, so they're all sorta scattered around the downtown.

[new age]

Originally Posted by Wharn

Also, unlike Windsor, the market, art gallery, central library, etc all developed before any consideration was given to a transit hub, so they're all sorta scattered around the downtown.

This is the thing with most big cities, we can't expect all downtown destinations to be in a short walking distance from a transit terminal. Large downtowns need transit routes through them.

I am not saying that intercity buses, trains, and transit shouldn't be grouped together in some kind of intermodal transit hub. My dream though costly is a transit tunnel running North/South through downtown with a terminal under the VIA station including intercity buses. With an East/West transit way through downtown.

Anyone know when we will hear more on the Market Lane?

[That_Chris]

While I agree the intersection is terrible for a bus terminal (there's not enough space to accommodate both bus waiting lines and people), I think we're all missing the biggest reason that the Intersection has such a poor reputation.

McDonalds! Move that McDonalds with it's walk up window out and I guarantee it'll be a much nicer place.