Homicide stats in Canadian Cities

[bulliver]

I believe the final tally was 45 for Edmonton.

[The_Architect]

Edmonton finishes with the same amount of homicides as Toronto, and yet which city has the undeserved reputation of being dirty and crime-ridden?

[chrisallard5454]

I have never heard that said about Toronto. And that shouldn't be said about Edmonton. Edmonton finished off on par with some of the best in the U.S. and on par with many from the rest of the world. People have to stop trying to glorify the fact that Edmonton had a bad year.

[chrisallard5454]

If you want a dirty and crime infested city, go to Juarez. You won't be disappointed.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Edmonton finishes with the same amount of homicides as Toronto, and yet which city has the undeserved reputation of being dirty and crime-ridden?

I don't think Toronto has a reputation for being dirty and crime-ridden. When it comes to that, there are a few Prairie cities and even Montreal which are perceived in a more negative light I would say.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

I have never heard that said about Toronto. And that shouldn't be said about Edmonton. Edmonton finished off on par with some of the best in the U.S. and on par with many from the rest of the world. People have to stop trying to glorify the fact that Edmonton had a bad year.

True, but locally that means squat. We had a terrible year for murders/homicides and need to address why.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

True, but locally that means squat. We had a terrible year for murders/homicides and need to address why.

The current transient nature of our population is part of the problem. But when you look at the current list there is no real major pattern. The biggest spike we saw is the number of arguments that escalated into knife fights. There were only a couple of drug gang killings.

I have a neighbour that works with the coroner’s dept., she indicated that not only were murders up but suicides were way up as well.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

We had a terrible year for murders/homicides and need to address why.

^ people put too much "stock" in murder statistics.

You basically cannot prevent them, and you cannot predict them.

They are a really bad indicator of crime in any given city, unless of course random innocent people are being hunted down and killed on a regular basis.

In general, You get murdered by people you associate with. Lesson here, don't associate with murderers.

[Airboy]

Agreed. I feel quite safe in Edmonton and Canada in general. yes there are local areas you watch yourself in but overall I don't make myself a target.

Especially when I compare it to trips to Houston, Washington, Tampa, Minneapolis and Parts of Paris, where I had the spidy senses going nonstop.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Edmonton finishes with the same amount of homicides as Toronto, and yet which city has the undeserved reputation of being dirty and crime-ridden?

I don't honestly think that reputation persists strongly from anybody with an education of Grade 5 or up.

[BretttheRiderFan]

I feel 100% safe in Edmonton. There are a few dodgy areas, like around McCauley and Parkdale, but even those aren't bad most of the time.

Other neighbourhoods that I feel a bit uncomfortable in: East Hastings in Vancouver (walking on Hastings Street after dark I wouldn't recommend, especially when you're not used to the area as I wasn't, though the odds of being attacked randomly by a heroin addict seem low), North Central in Regina around Taylor Field has been one of the worst areas of the country for crime for a while now, and areas of the west side of Saskatoon are pretty sketchy at times. I've also heard the north side of Winnipeg is pretty bad.

Hell, here in Grande Prairie there are some known crime areas, particularly on the east side of the city.

Having been to the supposed "bad" parts of Toronto and Montreal (Jane and Finch, Rexdale in Toronto, and north-east Montreal) don't really stack up to the more crime-ridden areas of Western Canada, and being that the largest cities in this country, the most diverse and dense seem to be home to lower crime, the East should be damn proud of their excellent records and work to uphold them.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Grande Prairie had it's fourth major robbery in the last month today. A popular local restaurant, the Jackpot, was robbed with a firearm. In the last month, the Servus Credit Union, Royal Bank, and Best Buy have been robbed as well. Pretty unusual little crime spree.

http://www.q99live.com/news/?news_ac..._action%3Dlist

[vid]

I don't think many people consider Toronto to be unsafe anymore. There is a bit of shock when people hear about how safe it is because they assume that larger cities have more crime and smaller cities have less, when it simply doesn't work like that.

Netnewsledger has a more in-depth story about the stabbing in Thunder Bay I posted on the previous page. It's a pretty interesting read. It clearly shows how ineffective organizations like Children's Aid are.

Thunder Bay hasn't had a Mac's robbery yet this month. We had 27 last year. All of our Mac's stores are now free of window displays, have more lighting (as in, they're brighter than Walmart inside), a more open area around the cash register, and all but 3 or 4 are now closed overnight. It seems to be helping a little bit, but both the police and Mac's have stated that the robbery problem is a social issue, and nothing that either organization can fix.

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by drew

^ people put too much "stock" in murder statistics.

You basically cannot prevent them, and you cannot predict them.

I think that is an absurd statement. Are you suggesting that some people are genetically pre-disposed to murder?

[vid]

They're unpredictable in that they're often the result of a domestic dispute or fight between two or more people who know each other, and you can't really predict when a domestic dispute or fight between two or more people who know each other will result in a murder. That is why the murder rate fluctuates so much.

Thunder Bay's murder rate looks something like this:

2005: 5 (4.6/100,000)
2006: 2 (1.8/100,000)
2007: 3 (2.8/100,000)
2008: 0 (0.0/100,000)
2009: 6 (5.5/100,000) (we were not murder capital this year; Abbotsford was. I am pretty sure we ranked down the list, even)
2010: 5 (4.6/100,000) (we were murder capital this year; Abbotsford was not in the top 5)
2011: 4 (3.7/100,000) (we came in 4th for murder this year)

How is that pattern in any predictable?

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

I have never heard that said about Toronto. And that shouldn't be said about Edmonton. Edmonton finished off on par with some of the best in the U.S. and on par with many from the rest of the world. People have to stop trying to glorify the fact that Edmonton had a bad year.

Remember that people here on SSP and other urban-focused forums are generally a little more...enlightened than the population at large (regarding urban issues at least). It doesn't take a whole lot of searching to find no shortage of exaggerated, ignorant comments about crime in Toronto or Edmonton or any other city.

Case in point: just read a newspaper site's comments section (yeah I know, the deepest, darkest asshole of thinking skills in the universe, but...).

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't think Toronto has a reputation for being dirty and crime-ridden.

It certainly does in the rest of Southern Ontario, at least. But then, thats the pretty typical attitude in the "hinterlands" around the world towards whatever the local big city is.

[vid]

Part of that is because Toronto media covering Toronto murders dominates the airwaves. London murders only get mentioned in London. Windsor murders only get mentioned in Windsor. Kitchener-Waterloo murders only get mentioned in Kitchener-Waterloo. Toronto murders get mentioned on nightly national news and repeated on a 15 minutes loop on two cable news networks.

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by vid

They're unpredictable in that they're often the result of a domestic dispute or fight between two or more people who know each other, and you can't really predict when a domestic dispute or fight between two or more people who know each other will result in a murder. That is why the murder rate fluctuates so much.

Thunder Bay's murder rate looks something like this:

2005: 5 (4.6/100,000)
2006: 2 (1.8/100,000)
2007: 3 (2.8/100,000)
2008: 0 (0.0/100,000)
2009: 6 (5.5/100,000) (we were not murder capital this year; Abbotsford was. I am pretty sure we ranked down the list, even)
2010: 5 (4.6/100,000) (we were murder capital this year; Abbotsford was not in the top 5)
2011: 4 (3.7/100,000) (we came in 4th for murder this year)

How is that pattern in any predictable?

Murders are predictable in the sense that they tend to occur more often in communities plagued by social disorder, poverty and addictions. Therefore, less social disorder, poverty and addictions = less murders (so the theory goes any way.)

ETA that I don't know anything about criminology or sociology. This is mostly just wishful thinking on my part.

[vid]

You can predict which community might see more homicides than others, but you can't predict when they'll happen or how they will happen. Since most happen in private homes, you can't really effectively combat them with police alone.

[chrisallard5454]

Well in essence that can be said about any crime, but I understand where your coming from. I think the point that is trying to be made is that even if you live in neighbourhoods such as the North End, East Hastings etc. etc. you are generally considered safe, as unlike New Orleans, Juarez, Gary, etc. you as a citizen are safe unless you put yourself in a situation that warrants otherwise. Situations where you are involved with gangs, drugs and other crime related things.

I have walked the North End (for half my life), Jane and Finch (which isn't bad at all), Regent Park, East of Adelaide, ect. ect. and have never feared for my life. I have been a victim of multiple attacks in Winnipeg, which could have resulted in death if I was a complete tool. But I have never feared for my life.

The difference between any place in Canada (even the worst) and a place like New Orleans and Juarez is that there are people in those places looking to kill. That is why in Juarez out of the 1 900 people that were killed in 2011 I think over half were women. It is the desire to kill. Where as in Winnipeg, where even gang members are killed, it is just an attack gone too far. Except for the few cases where it was obviously with intent, but once again, gangster related.