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View Poll Results: What do you think of the design?
I love it! 156 44.70%
It's good. 134 38.40%
I don't like it. 28 8.02%
Nuke it from Orbit (waste of taxpayers dollars) 31 8.88%
Voters: 349. You may not vote on this poll

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  #221  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 5:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
Maybe they could suspend a net from it to catch the drunk assholes on inflatable hippos before they hit the weir.
Why would we want to do that?
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  #222  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 5:14 AM
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The bridge will be located at the ice dam area. In the 1950s after ice jamming up on the constricted channel and arch piers at the centre street bridge and the resulting flooding into sunnyside, the river was excavated at this area to increase the river cross sectional area which slows down the water velocity so the floating ice will slow & jam up here, thus the ice dam occurs here in the winter. Now you can see the slower water velocity upstream of the island, which is in part why the rafters like to pull out on the south bank. The water velocity noticably picks up at the island where the width is narrower and the depth is much shallower than upstream in the dam area

from an old friend of the river....
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  #223  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 6:27 AM
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It looks like 350' "candy cane"! As bad as some of the architects are in Calgary, you can't tell me that someone could'nt design something as well or better for a lot less cost! Looks like something in an amusement park!
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  #224  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 6:33 AM
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Originally Posted by max0442 View Post
The bridge will be located at the ice dam area. In the 1950s after ice jamming up on the constricted channel and arch piers at the centre street bridge and the resulting flooding into sunnyside, the river was excavated at this area to increase the river cross sectional area which slows down the water velocity so the floating ice will slow & jam up here, thus the ice dam occurs here in the winter. Now you can see the slower water velocity upstream of the island, which is in part why the rafters like to pull out on the south bank. The water velocity noticably picks up at the island where the width is narrower and the depth is much shallower than upstream in the dam area

from an old friend of the river....

Someone else commented on ice jams and flooding on either the Herald or CBC website the other night. The comment made me go hmmmm, as I have seen ice get bunched up there.
Most likely, I'll have it googled before you reply, but can you site a source with regards to the excavation?
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  #225  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 6:40 AM
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A TransAlta (formerly Calgary Power) engineer, in charge of Ghost dam discharges, advised me of this in the 1970s...
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  #226  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 11:46 AM
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As bad as some of the architects are in Calgary, you can't tell me that someone could'nt design something as well or better for a lot less cost!
Yes, yes i can.
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  #227  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bob1954 View Post
It looks like 350' "candy cane"! As bad as some of the architects are in Calgary, you can't tell me that someone could'nt design something as well or better for a lot less cost! Looks like something in an amusement park!
Well since it is also nearly a 600 foot bridge that HAD to be a single span with a limited supersctructure (under 20 feet I believe) I think the answer is an emphatic NO!

I don't think that non-technical people understand the true complexity of this bridge. While it is easy to comment on the asthetics of it, the truth is that this is more an Engineering accomplishment first and hot looker second. WHile it was not impossible to meet the technical requirements, to do so while making it look good was the challenge.

Again, I do not think that anyone in town would have come up with this even if they could have.

BTW, as for the cost, considering that the 30m pedestrian bridge recently built over Country Hills Blvd cost nearly $5M, I think this bridge is a bargain. It was more complex and only cost marginally more considering the length. (And remember, it's all about length!! )
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  #228  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by shreddog View Post
Well since it is also nearly a 600 foot bridge that HAD to be a single span with a limited supersctructure (under 20 feet I believe) I think the answer is an emphatic NO!

I don't think that non-technical people understand the true complexity of this bridge. While it is easy to comment on the asthetics of it, the truth is that this is more an Engineering accomplishment first and hot looker second. WHile it was not impossible to meet the technical requirements, to do so while making it look good was the challenge.

Again, I do not think that anyone in town would have come up with this even if they could have.

BTW, as for the cost, considering that the 30m pedestrian bridge recently built over Country Hills Blvd cost nearly $5M, I think this bridge is a bargain. It was more complex and only cost marginally more considering the length. (And remember, it's all about length!! )
Excellent points. All the bitching about cost is really quite silly as the costs are in line with any 'lesser' structure.

But I thought it was more about girth than length? The Calatrava is girthy at 6m
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  #229  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 1:54 PM
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Wooster (I think?) hinted that an equivalent "plain" bridge might cost in the neighbourhood of $18m. I'd love to see a quick back of the napkin estimate by someone in the know - design costs for something really cheap, and actual construction cost.

Everyone is so up in arms over the cost, but I don't see anyone complaining about the millions being spend on these pointless pedestrian bridges that litter the suburbs, and literally go nowhere. Great, so I can walk from one suburb to another. Yay, more houses! Hell, the one over Stoney doesn't even GO anywhere. Just from one cul-de-sac to another.

Anyone upset about the Peace Bridge should be breaking out the torches and pitchforks when it comes to the bridges being built elsewhere. At least the Peace Bridge will be USED. I challenge anyone to come downtown on a Sunday in the summer and tell me that thing won't be packed with people.
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  #230  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 2:18 PM
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This is my favourite media story so far. The sun has headline "Wave of scorn greets bridge" and then the video of a reporter on the trails asking people what they think...

...everyone interviewed likes it and is in favour. ha ha.

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alber...-10294766.html

The online poll had a slight majority not liking the design.

Funny how people who are actually out and using the paths (the people they interviewed) understand its need and appreciate it.
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  #231  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 2:31 PM
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Two articles which answer some questions that have come up on the thread, plus another one which leaves me asking the question "why won't the sun just let this drop?? what happened to just reporting the news instead of trying to create it??

From the Herald:

Quote:
Calgary Peace Bridge design not first of its kind

Span called part of a 'new wave' of structures

By Jason Markusoff, Calgary HeraldJuly 30, 2009 7:23 AMBe the first to post a comment
StoryPhotos ( 1 )

The City of Calgary pegs the overall cost of the Peace Bridge at $24.5 million.Photograph by: Courtesy, City of CalgaryCALGARY - The tubular design of Calgary's forthcoming Peace Bridge may be familiar to anybody who has driven the M8 expressway through central Scotland since November.

The Harthill footbridge, located at a major highway service station, is a similar helix-like cylinder spanning straight above the highway. Completed last fall, it follows the same helical truss style as the award-winning 2004 Greenside Place Link bridge that joins two buildings over a street in Edinburgh, Scotland.

"I'm not going to tell you it's the first in the world, but (the Peace Bridge) definitely is in a new wave of structures," said Jadwiga Kroman, the City of Calgary's manager of bridges and structures. "It's a theoretical idea that's been around for a little bit, but it's very challenging to produce."

Calgary may not be getting a completely one-of-a-kind bridge, but architect Santiago Calatrava has proposed a span over the Bow that is certainly rare, and at 130 metres it will be longer than the 90-metre Harthill bridge, and more than twice as wide as that Scottish highway pedestrian overpass. Scotland's bridges aren't red, either.

Debate continued to pulse through Calgary about the long-awaited design of the $24.5-million bridge for pedestrians and cyclists between Sunnyside and Eau Claire. It's been likened to a giant cardiac stent, a candy cane, subway tunnel, drinking straw and finger-trap toy.

"I think it looks like a ghastly argyle sock-- why buy "Armani" when you can shop at Wal-Mart?" Herald reader Vicky Moorman quipped, in a swipe at the bridge's cost and extravagance.

Calgary architect Tony Leong called the controversy overblown, and wondered why critics don't seethe as often over costly overpasses or other city expenditures of benefit to fewer than the 5,000 people the city figures will use the Peace Bridge daily when it opens in fall 2010.

"Kudos to the city for looking at things long-term for a change--even Parisians hated the Eiffel Tower once upon a time," Leong said.

"I can tell you that maybe one or two (design) firms in the city would have the imagination to do this project, and even fewer engineers would have the guts to stamp the drawings."


Although some Calgary designers chafed at the lack of a chance to try designing the new bridge, the next footbridge at East Village will be open to a design competition in mid-August, the area's developer said.

"It never made it a choice to do it another way," said Chris Ollenberger of Calgary Municipal Land Corp., when asked why he didn't sole-source a designer like Calatrava.

The eastern pedestrian bridge will be about 11/2 times as long as the Peace Bridge, touching down on St. Patrick Island before extending again to the northern Bow River pathway. Its cost will be determined by the eventual design, but be paid through taxes levied on East Village-area property owners.

For the Peace Bridge, city officials plan to seek construction contractors this fall. They've already conceived a way to assemble the bridge that might become a spectacle in its own right, Kroman said.

Crews will fuse together or "splice" the steel helix parts and complete the long cylinder on the south bank of the Bow. Then, likely over one or two days next summer, they'll lift the structure onto giant rollers and slowly push it with a launching hydraulic jack across the river, Kroman said. Two cranes will help guide the red tube onto its north-bank abutments
.
From the Sun:

Quote:
Bridge game not over yet
City has more cards to play with new span in East Village

By RICK BELL

What are these? Don't calm down yet. We've only just begun.

They roll out the drawings of the red snake and, in a few weeks, the next designer footbridge, with an available budget of at least $25.5 million, kicks off.

And ... Holy Iconic Architecture, Batman ... it's at least one and a half times longer than the Calatrava creation.

Now don't forget about this footbridge in the East Village.

On Aug. 17, a competition begins among interested architects of the world to sketch the design of this footbridge and, with no helipad near, it doesn't have to be a snake. It can soar like an eagle and not only span the river but reach for the stars with cables and towers galore.

Some sketches from the designers could be in by September and we could have a winner and their drawings and a name, not necessarily having any connection to soldiers unless people really get mad, by early next year with construction beginning late next year, right after the red snake is in place.


The dough for Footbridge No. 2, touted by the usual aldermen as the second injection of civic style, comes from dollars borrowed by the city to be paid back from future tax dollars paid out by future development of the East Village. Got it? So it is still tax money.

There is no budget set because there is no design yet. But those in charge tell us if the design and construction requires more than the $25.5 million approved by city council they can get more dollars without going to council directly.

You see, the development in the East Village and the Footbridge No. 2 is being run out of a corporation set up by the city and, if additional coin is needed, the corporation can go to its shareholder, the city, and get it. There is a member of council on the corporation's board of directors. Bronco. There is a member of council very involved since East Village is in their area. Ald. Druh Farrell.

You need good news?

The short list of designs will be made public before a selection is made. Meetings will be set up for citizens to put in their two cents on the $25.5- million design, or whatever it will cost. Who knows, maybe Calatrava will win another contract.

The bridge is quite a bit bigger than the red snake because it must connect the south bank of the Bow with St. Patrick's Island and with the north bank of the Bow. On the south bank, it is located east of the Langevin Bridge, the bridge by the Drop-in Centre, and west of a rickety wooden suspension bridge, which is west of the zoo.

"It might be a bit premature to shoot the messenger. The bridge doesn't have to make a statement. It has to be elegant, efficient and functional," says Chris Ollenberger, boss of East Village, who is well aware his venture lies in the shadow of Calatrava.


"We're not replacing four-way stops with lights. We need some discussion with the public."

Chris likes the Peace Bridge and thinks, with it being red, it will look best in winter.

"I think a bit of a bar has been set," he says, of the bridge we now know so well.

"We're over a million people and 100 years old and we have to start expressing who we are instead of building concrete bridges saying we're here for $10 and 10 years when we're not."


He says this footbridge will be well used and those on the flyover or the Langevin Bridge or rafting down the Bow will be able to see a beautiful piece of work. The boozed-up rafters will be able to see the bridge double. Bonus.

Seriously, one fly remains in the ointment. If Druh continues to quote her well-thumbed edition of Snobbery For Dummies, the fury will most certainly be far from over.
And... from where else.... the Sun...

Quote:
Run on it!
Our Opinion: Council should stake jobs on Peace Bridge plan

By CALGARY SUN

Last Updated: 30th July 2009, 3:55am

What are these? We've seen the lightning rod across the Bow.

Now it's time to fire a warning shot across the bow of city council: Don't build it without a mandate from the people.

It's clear many, many Calgarians have little desire for the so-called Peace Bridge, its $24.5-million price tag and funky modern design.


The timing isn't right, the location is questionable and a late-in-the-day decision to link it to our patriotism, which smacks of a smokescreen, are all valid reasons to give pause.

It's equally clear Mayor Dave Bronconnier and a majority of his aldermen -- Druh Farrell, Joe Ceci, John Mar, Bob Hawkesworth, Brian Pincott and Linda Fox-Mellway voted for the bridge while Gord Lowe and Dale Hodges were absent -- are quite happy to shove it down taxpayers' throats come hell or high water.

Farrell and friends will say we lack vision.

Well, we say we've seen enough.

It's time to stop work and take this plan to the people who will actually be paying for it.

Put this project on hold and campaign on it in next fall's municipal election.


Yes, we know there may be money thrown away if this bridge is never built.

We also know you don't throw good money after bad -- even if it's not your money.

Council, do the right thing, for once, and let the people decide if this bridge should ever see the light of day.
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  #232  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 2:48 PM
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The Herald's view

Bridge not too far out
Calgary Herald July 30, 2009

The design of Calgary's controversial pedestrian bridge is being likened to everything from a hamster tunnel, a candy cane, a Chinese finger trap and a space-age commuter train. Some people love it and others hate it. That's the beauty of, well, beauty -- it really is in the eye of the beholder.

Ultimately, internationally acclaimed architect Santiago Calatrava delivered precisely what was needed to smother the flames stoked by his hiring and the bridge's cost--a simple yet distinctive bridge.

The design is practical enough to be built on budget, yet interesting enough to create an architectural icon that will enhance the Calgary skyline.


The$24.5-million footbridge was a lightning rod for angry taxpayers, as it became a symbol of council's extravagance and arrogance. The spending was pre-approved outside of the budget process. And local architects were shunned when council chose not to hold a juried competition and hired Calatrava by acclamation.

Finally, attempts to dampen criticism by marketing it as a military memorial struck many as shabby opportunism. There is nothing evocative of the armed forces about it, unless a passing similarity to the geodetic construction of the Vickers Wellington bomber counts. It was cynicism, period.

All of that though, is, well, water under the bridge. What matters now is that Calgary will get a landmark structure that will likely remain controversial for years to come.

© Copyright (c) The Calgary Herald


http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion...089/story.html
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  #233  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 3:26 PM
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The Herald's tone of late seems to be a little more balanced than previously - probably partly due to their exclusive interview helping to open a few eyes internally. Can't say I'm a big fan of the paper, but at least there is an attempt to present some facts instead of misinformed rhetoric.

The Sun... well... is still the Sun. It has its niche.
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  #234  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 3:36 PM
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At least we aren't the only city in Canada that is embarrased by The Sun every day.
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  #235  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 3:37 PM
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^ Yeah, that new Rick Bell article appears to be deliberate misrepresentation to incite more of the same negativity against the second bridge.
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  #236  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 3:39 PM
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The Sun is read daily by simpletons who know nothing of the outside world, except for what the Sun "tells" them.
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  #237  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 3:42 PM
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Possibly contributing to the off topic veer but man the Sun is a steaming turd pile. I mean really. I think because print media is on the decline they are lodging themselves with fanatics (maybe too strong but you know what I mean) so that they will be able to survive in some capacity pandering to those who they know will loyally buy into it. Their headlines seem to be increasingly misguidedly Nancy Grace-ish which I'm sure is even an insult to them but there it is. Beltline rapist? Deaths on the highway? A headline sure, but a $24m footbridge gets a black front page and a pseudo call to arms! And then when I get misc pages blown onto my lawn I just about snap. Sweet merciful crap!!

I wonder what FFWD has to say about it? I'm hoping nothing because really it's a non-issue. This week's comes out today and will be picking it up at lunch...
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  #238  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 3:47 PM
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Between guys like Rick Bell and that Myke Thomas who writes in the 'Homes' section (and is nothing but a lap dog for big suburban development) I wonder if there is anyone left at the Sun that actually respects themselves?

At the very least it explains the alcoholic escapades of Rick Bell that are well known.
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  #239  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 4:02 PM
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The Sun almost seems to be advocating American-style plebiscite-on-every-insignificant-issue politics.

I don't recall getting a vote on the south hospital which I'll never use, and is (from what I recall) close to a billion dollar project. No one asked me about the cheapest way to join Deerfoot and Stoney - maybe I think having lights there is acceptable. I certainly wasn't consulted about the GE-5 which I hardly ever drive. Heck, even the WLRT is going to be hundreds of millions - I'll never use it. Where was my mayoral candidate who ran on a platform of not building it??? The weir? I'm not some drunken rafter, why should my tax dollars have to pay for it?

Seriously - it's a $25 million bridge. It is such a miniscule part of the city's budget in the grand scope of things. Why is the Sun making such a big deal about this?

Oh wait - wedge politics and appeals to emotion. Maybe the Sun is wanting us to emulate the success of the neocons.
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  #240  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 4:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeweed View Post
The Sun almost seems to be advocating American-style plebiscite-on-every-insignificant-issue politics.

I don't recall getting a vote on the south hospital which I'll never use, and is (from what I recall) close to a billion dollar project. No one asked me about the cheapest way to join Deerfoot and Stoney - maybe I think having lights there is acceptable. I certainly wasn't consulted about the GE-5 which I hardly ever drive. Heck, even the WLRT is going to be hundreds of millions - I'll never use it. Where was my mayoral candidate who ran on a platform of not building it??? The weir? I'm not some drunken rafter, why should my tax dollars have to pay for it?

Seriously - it's a $25 million bridge. It is such a miniscule part of the city's budget in the grand scope of things. Why is the Sun making such a big deal about this?

Oh wait - wedge politics and appeals to emotion. Maybe the Sun is wanting us to emulate the success of the neocons.
wedge politics is definitely the case here...

Interestingly enough, it is more of a demographic wedge between urbanites and suburbanites I feel...

honestly, if that is the case, there ought to be an apportioned tax system - living downtown with the highest property taxes (and least benefit imo) with the highest density, and then having a pretty paltry infrastructure project become such a lightning rod is maddening...

Your tax money should stay in your community, with some exceptions of course, like funding the public school system...or simply figure out a way of doing toll roads. Surely, the 'fiscal conservatives' should be ok with that no? its the true definition of a user-pay system...
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