Ontario Budget - Balancing the Books

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by vid

And then there is a difference between rural and north, where aside from the opposition to gun legislation and hypocritical want of socialized energy, we're the political opposite of the rural south.

There is a hypocricy factor in the rural south as well - they claim to hate government for economic and property rights, but they don't seem to mind agricultural subsidies.

[miketoronto]

There is an easy way to fix this budget. RAISE TAXES.

I am sorry, but this idea that we can keep taxes always down or decrease them ( as in corporate tax rates), yet keep all the services going, is stupid.

Raise the taxes to the level that allows us to pay for what we need. Corporations making billions a year should not be getting tax breaks.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

There is an easy way to fix this budget. RAISE TAXES.

I am sorry, but this idea that we can keep taxes always down or decrease them ( as in corporate tax rates), yet keep all the services going, is stupid.

Raise the taxes to the level that allows us to pay for what we need. Corporations making billions a year should not be getting tax breaks.

That would guarantee a Conservative government in the next election, especially if done wrong.

[eternallyme]

What taxes would be increased anyway? The corporate tax is obvious, but just cancelling the current cut would only raise less than $2B, or about 1/8 of the deficit. To cover the entire deficit on corporate taxes, the rate would have to be over 30%, which would be BY FAR the highest in Canada.

[shreddog]

Taxes will go up - they have to as we can't cut our way of the deficit. Expect to see a mix - gradual, but significant sin taxes, provincal part of the HST up by at least 2%, corporate taxes, income tax surtaxes and a host of user fees. The upside for the Libbies is Drummond's analysis blasts the Cons and the Dippers for their unfunded promises in the last election so I don't think they can promise the moon this time without saying how it will be funded.

While no one wants higher taxes, once the first set of cuts are seen/felt by the masses, people will finally accept that they pay for good service. I think it's critical to remember that Ontario is really not an over governed environment with high taxes. Slow changes in both will/can be acceptable.

[shreddog]

^^ I know I've said it before but I do believe that Ontario will be the first province to introduce health user fees as it is possible under the Canada Health act.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

...Corporations making billions a year should not be getting tax breaks.

Not that I disagree with your sentiment regarding corporate taxes, but can you provide an example of an Ontario corporation making billions and getting tax breaks??

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by shreddog

^^ I know I've said it before but I do believe that Ontario will be the first province to introduce health user fees as it is possible under the Canada Health act.

They used to have health user fees. When my parents first moved back to Canada in the 70's, they remember having to pay a special user fee each year. If you were low income, you did not have to pay this. But if you made a good wage you had to. I think they said they paid something like $20.00 a person a year or something.

And when it comes to other projects, why not user fees to pay them off? When the Burlington Skyway was built, they charged cars a fee to use the bridge. This fee was charged until the bridge was paid for.
Why not do things like that again?

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

That would guarantee a Conservative government in the next election, especially if done wrong.

Well if the Conservative government would want to balance the budget, they would have to do the same thing to.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

Well if the Conservative government would want to balance the budget, they would have to do the same thing to.

Yes, by cutting spending.

Higher taxes are the LAST thing most Ontarians want right now.

[SteelTown]

McGuinty vows not to raise taxes

http://www.thespec.com/news/ontario/...to-raise-taxes

TORONTO Premier Dalton McGuinty promises he will not raise taxes to eliminate a $16-billion deficit.

McGuinty says the minority Liberal government will not adopt all 362 cost-cutting recommendations economist Don Drummond’s report, and will likely change some while ignoring others.

McGuinty said a flat “no” when asked directly if he would raise taxes to offset some of the ideas from Drummond that get rejected, but then he walked away from the microphone.

The premier also dismissed Drummond’s criticism that politicians failed to talk about Ontario’s harsh fiscal reality during last fall’s election campaign, saying he wants to look forward, not back.

McGuinty says the Liberals will not make “thoughtless, reckless, across-the-board cuts,” and if it comes to a choice between funding horse racing or home care, then home care will win.

The Liberals last week signalled the Ontario horse racing industry’s $345-million annual share of slot machine revenues could be withdrawn by the cash-strapped government.

[eternallyme]

There is only one tax hike that they can probably get away with - the corporate tax which was just reduced, and it is not a bright idea to cut taxes while running a deficit. But that will only cover about 10% of the deficit.

Health care and education should not be seen as sacred cows. Those two areas likely have 90% of the waste (i.e. four school boards for each area - cut them all to one, eliminate all-day kindergarten, scrap the tuition break that most don't benefit from, allow private investment and options in health care)

How much would the LCBO collect if it was sold and deregulated? Although one condition would be that all proceeds go to paying down the debt to reduce interest payments. Other assets (i.e. TVO, ONTC, ServiceOntario) should not be sold, however, due to the low monetary benefits and high expenses.

[Highinthesky]

I think a realistic approach to this problem is a combination of tax increases and spending cuts.

What I have found most interesting is that the response from the Government and the union groups likely to be target by the suggestions in the Drummond report has been mostly silence.

[vid]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

scrap the tuition break that most don't benefit from

If "most don't benefit from it", then how does it cost so much?

Originally Posted by eternallyme

allow private investment and options in health care

Wouldn't that would only supplement what the province is already providing? How would that increase revenue?

Originally Posted by eternallyme

How much would the LCBO collect if it was sold and deregulated?

It generates income for the province. In the long term, we'd suffer a loss that would have to be made up either by spending cuts for essential services, or tax increases. Deregulating alcohol could also result in less revenue, unless it is associated with a bunch of fees and regulations but that is kind of the opposite of deregulating.

[miketoronto]

Why would you sell the LCBO when it brings in steady income year after year? Selling assets is no way to balance the books, and is a short sighted move that many governments sadly make.

In terms of tax increases, I think people need to stop complaining.
People act like a tax increases forced them to pay thousands more dollars a year and that they are left with nothing.
The truth is tax increases do not make people may that much more than they are paying now.

So for example, in Toronto, they were complaining about the property tax increase, and people can't afford it, etc. At the end of the day, the increase on most homes is $60.00 for the whole year, or $5.00 a month. Not much of an increase to keep services going, etc.

So we have got to get out of this idea that tax increases take a ton of money from us. Because they don't. And with what people spend in the malls everyday, I think a lot of people have an extra $60 bucks a year to whatever it would come out to, to help balance our budget and keep the services that make this province great, running.

I really don't think people understand how many things we take for granted are paid for with taxes. The province should start putting signs up on all the stuff that is paid for with taxes, and then see what people say.

[vid]

The province does put signs up. All facilities and objects funded with provincial tax dollars have the Ontario logo on them.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

Why would you sell the LCBO when it brings in steady income year after year? Selling assets is no way to balance the books, and is a short sighted move that many governments sadly make.

In terms of tax increases, I think people need to stop complaining.
People act like a tax increases forced them to pay thousands more dollars a year and that they are left with nothing.
The truth is tax increases do not make people may that much more than they are paying now.

So for example, in Toronto, they were complaining about the property tax increase, and people can't afford it, etc. At the end of the day, the increase on most homes is $60.00 for the whole year, or $5.00 a month. Not much of an increase to keep services going, etc.

So we have got to get out of this idea that tax increases take a ton of money from us. Because they don't. And with what people spend in the malls everyday, I think a lot of people have an extra $60 bucks a year to whatever it would come out to, to help balance our budget and keep the services that make this province great, running.

I really don't think people understand how many things we take for granted are paid for with taxes. The province should start putting signs up on all the stuff that is paid for with taxes, and then see what people say.

1) The money would be forced to go on the debt, cutting interest payments

2) The HST and sin taxes would still be collected

3) Prices would decrease so there would be far less out-of-province travel for alcohol

[miketoronto]

For all the screaming about taxes, Ontario residents pay some of if not the lowest taxes in Canada (Alberta milks the the middle class, and gives the rich a break, so they don't count). So our taxes are not as bad as people think.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

For all the screaming about taxes, Ontario residents pay some of if not the lowest taxes in Canada (Alberta milks the the middle class, and gives the rich a break, so they don't count). So our taxes are not as bad as people think.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html

So if they did raise the hst to say 20% you would be fine with that?

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by reidjr

So if they did raise the hst to say 20% you would be fine with that?

I don't think a sales tax increase would be good. Instead they should raise income taxes and have fees to pay for some things, like a new toll on new highways to pay off the costs of construction.