Winnipeg - Of Interest

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

I know, I was comparing the North End to this area. Ie the North End has its moments (Manitoba Ave for example) "but"....

Yes, a large part of the North End has high levels of crime and poverty. North of Mountain and all parts east of Main are generally much better. Selkirk Avenue is a sad spectacle. It is unfortunate because there's an authenticity about the North End that is hard to find in Canada's largest cities, which have become increasingly generic. I can't speak as much to Montreal as I haven't been there in 15 years.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

^^ The Imperial Oil location on Henderson in E. St. Paul was never a refinery, just a storage facility.

That is incorrect. It was indeed a refinery, I lived closeby and I remember it well. The Winnipeg Products Pipeline used to supply both this and the Shell Panet refinery with crude from the Enbridge Mainline at the Gretna terminal. When the refineries closed it was changed to a refined products pipeline.

Radio Oil was gone in the late 50s.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

question is why did manitoba get rid of all its infrastructure yet sask still has bc and alberta as well like we gutted ourselfs and gave up

Economies of scale. Large refineries are far less expensive to operate per unit of production.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

They'll switch to rail from Gretna. Minimal impact. I thought 3mths to bore under a river during spring melt/thaw was incredibly optimistic honestly.

If they can do that in 3mths, I don't want to hear any more excuses about how long and complicated building rural overpasses are.

Sorry no rail link to Gretna. CP abandoned the line from there to Altona around 1996.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

It makes strategic sense in my mind to have a refinery in somewhere like Brandon, especially with its proximity to the small Manitoba oil fields. If something breaks again, it's a lot cheaper to get good from Brandon than from Regina. That said, strategic considerations of critical resources are often overlooked for economic concerns and I'm sure I'm completely out to left field with my imagined cost of a new refinery and that it'd be untenable.

Brandon had a small British American Oil branded one years ago and it closed around 1960 due to being too small and not economical to expand.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by Riverman

That is incorrect. It was indeed a refinery, I lived closeby and I remember it well. The Winnipeg Products Pipeline used to supply both this and the Shell Panet refinery with crude from the Enbridge Mainline at the Gretna terminal. When the refineries closed it was changed to a refined products pipeline.

Radio Oil was gone in the late 50s.

There also was a proposal in 1959 to build a 2nd East St. Paul refinery (British American Oil) next to the Imperial refinery but the local residents opposed it. It would have been where what is now known as the Fahr Family Farm sub division

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by cllew

There also was a proposal in 1959 to build a 2nd East St. Paul refinery (British American Oil) next to the Imperial refinery but the local residents opposed it. It would have been where what is now known as the Fahr Family Farm sub division

Interesting. North or south? My memories of EStP are fading.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by plrh

It will be 2 years to get the pipe under the river. I don't think they have even started to design it yet.

Three months according to them.

https://www.imperialoil.ca/company/o...ducts-pipeline

[1ajs]

they have a pritty anal monitoring program on the section under the river
as for design they have one on the books going back to the early 00's thats shuvil ready imagin they just need to get an updated stamp on it

[cllew]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Interesting. North or south? My memories of EStP are fading.

Not sure the exact location but the proposal was mentioned on both the East St. Paul webpage and the Fahr land development web page

[bomberjet]

So Imperial will bore a new pipe below the river within 3 months from date of shutdown. Even though I said before 3 months seems reasonable to actually do the work. Prep work takes a long time. And they wont want to rush this and install something like Homer Simpson would be doing here.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by cllew

Not sure the exact location but the proposal was mentioned on both the East St. Paul webpage and the Fahr land development web page

Fahr Lands is north of Birds Hill town/Hodinott. Mentnions the refinery here.
https://www.placespeak.com/en/topic/...paul-manitoba/

Note Jonathan Fahr who was spearheading the development of said lands passed away in 2016 and I havent herd anything more on the development front.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

So Imperial will bore a new pipe below the river within 3 months from date of shutdown. Even though I said before 3 months seems reasonable to actually do the work. Prep work takes a long time. And they wont want to rush this and install something like Homer Simpson would be doing here.

as long as the river doesnt flood they should be ok

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by Biff

I wonder if there is a need for redundancy in the City's fuel supply. I mean similarly to the Bi-Pole line for electricity, could the area use a back-up or distant parallel supply pipeline. I really don't know much about pipelines so...

This would probably be cheaper than setting up a refinery, but I really don't know.

Regarding to AJ's point above, clearly the additional Shell pipeline does not serve this purpose otherwise we would not be having this problem now.

It's a major uphill battle to get pipelines laid in this era.

Economically it doesn't make a ton of sense if within 25 years we won't be pumping gas anyways. Government would have to fully fund it because there's not enough time for private companies to profit much.

Could a provincial government get the Feds on board? Probably not regardless of stripe of government. It's a lot of money for limited benefit whatever side of the spectrum you're on.

[1ajs]

theres 2 lines feeding the city

only 8in the others 18 or 12 in i think i forget they can be switched to feed shell or essos tank farms with some valves theres a boster pump station just to the west of 75

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

theres 2 lines feeding the city

only 8in the others 18 or 12 in i think i forget they can be switched to feed shell or essos tank farms with some valves theres a boster pump station just to the west of 75

Underrated and unmentioned aspect of this situation is the piss-poor state of 75 and likelihood of (even more) significant wear on that road with increased tanker use.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

theres 2 lines feeding the city

only 8in the others 18 or 12 in i think i forget they can be switched to feed shell or essos tank farms with some valves theres a boster pump station just to the west of 75

I believe there is also a crossover at Plessis Rd and the CN Rail line where the Shell line turns west off the combined right of way to the Shell tank farm on Panet Rd.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by cllew

I believe there is also a crossover at Plessis Rd and the CN Rail line where the Shell line turns west off the combined right of way to the Shell tank farm on Panet Rd.

yes

theyre both owned by esso and can be switchg to feed either yard

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

theres 2 lines feeding the city

only 8in the others 18 or 12 in i think i forget they can be switched to feed shell or essos tank farms with some valves theres a boster pump station just to the west of 75

Any idea where this pump station is located?

[1ajs]

u can see it from 75 usualy how i remember getting to it not very big