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Old Posted Jan 13, 2020, 7:12 PM
RST500 RST500 is offline
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Perceptions about NIMBYism, Density, and Demographics

There's are perception from YIMBYs that NIMBYs are motivated by concerns about demographic change, either racial or classest. Limousine liberals are implicit about it and some Boomer conservative NIMBYs will say that the left is using density to diversity the suburbs.

On other end you have anti-gentrification activist who make the opposite claim. That high density leads to the displacement of low income communities of color.

In reality things are a lot more complex. There are areas that have transformed into ethnoburbs despite NIMBYism and also high density developments full of upper class Whites.


What are some observations from places where there's been where those scenarios have happened?
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Old Posted Jan 13, 2020, 9:21 PM
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CherryCreek CherryCreek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RST500 View Post
There's are perception from YIMBYs that NIMBYs are motivated by concerns about demographic change, either racial or classest. Limousine liberals are implicit about it and some Boomer conservative NIMBYs will say that the left is using density to diversity the suburbs.

On other end you have anti-gentrification activist who make the opposite claim. That high density leads to the displacement of low income communities of color.

In reality things are a lot more complex. There are areas that have transformed into ethnoburbs despite NIMBYism and also high density developments full of upper class Whites.


What are some observations from places where there's been where those scenarios have happened?
I'm sure a lot of those agendas have some relevance in many areas, but there's also something more basic going on, at least in the NIMBY world:
Greed and self interest.

A lot of the NIMBYs simply have the attitude of "i've got mine, now shut the damn door, we don't need any more people here." In my experience, some the loudest NIMBYs are people who themselves are only recently arrived to an area. They truly want to slam the door behind them.
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Old Posted Jan 13, 2020, 9:28 PM
eschaton eschaton is online now
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Originally Posted by CherryCreek View Post
A lot of the NIMBYs simply have the attitude of "i've got mine, now shut the damn door, we don't need any more people here." In my experience, some the loudest NIMBYs are people who themselves are only recently arrived to an area. They truly want to slam the door behind them.
I've had the reverse experience. My general feeling is the worst NIMBYs tend to be elderly and near-elderly people. Perhaps it's that combination of being really disillusioned about how everything continues to get more and more alien the older you get, along with having lots of free time to attend community meetings.
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Old Posted Jan 13, 2020, 9:38 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
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i think at the most basic level it comes down to: "change is scary".

people will place their most basic fears upon any proposed change.

that's why we get wealthy white conservatives fearful that a density increase will bring more poor brown people into "their" neighborhood, while simultaneously getting poor minority liberals fearful that a density increase will bring more wealthy white people into "their" neighborhood.

people are just scared of "the other" because we are a tribal species by nature. any proposed change to the status quo might mean more "others" might come, and that scares people because most people suck.
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Old Posted Jan 14, 2020, 7:37 PM
RST500 RST500 is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i think at the most basic level it comes down to: "change is scary".

people will place their most basic fears upon any proposed change.

that's why we get wealthy white conservatives fearful that a density increase will bring more poor brown people into "their" neighborhood, while simultaneously getting poor minority liberals fearful that a density increase will bring more wealthy white people into "their" neighborhood.

people are just scared of "the other" because we are a tribal species by nature. any proposed change to the status quo might mean more "others" might come, and that scares people because most people suck.
In LA there's an extreme inequality between rich and poor. It would be interesting if up-zoning would bring both the wealthy and poor areas closer to the middle class.

I guess some of those NIMBYs are sort of racist but a self centered racism rather than thinking of giving their descendants a future.
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Old Posted Jan 16, 2020, 5:48 PM
Gantz Gantz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i think at the most basic level it comes down to: "change is scary".

people will place their most basic fears upon any proposed change.

that's why we get wealthy white conservatives fearful that a density increase will bring more poor brown people into "their" neighborhood, while simultaneously getting poor minority liberals fearful that a density increase will bring more wealthy white people into "their" neighborhood.

people are just scared of "the other" because we are a tribal species by nature. any proposed change to the status quo might mean more "others" might come, and that scares people because most people suck.
NIMBYism is not limited to "rich white conservatives" or "poor liberal minorities".
At least in NYC, a lot of NIMBYs are "rich white liberals", primarily white liberal women who want community gardens in the middle of downtown, no building shadows on their dog walk parks, and other such nonsense. These are the same people who also are "concerned" about new developments displacing minorities and they are the ones who actually show up to community board meetings.
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