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  #101  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2017, 4:24 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
The thing is both the city and Salvation Army know every neighbourhood would react exactly the same way, and Vanier would react the same way even if there were concessions, so there is little incentive to change anything.
That's true.
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  #102  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2017, 4:56 PM
Proof Sheet Proof Sheet is offline
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Originally Posted by R_chapma View Post
Here are all the reasons the economic impact study done by Shore-Tanner and Associates, is a giant load of expensive BS

https://urbanomicsblog.wordpress.com...nier/#more-513

Written by a Dan Stankovic
In the past economic feasibility studies were accepted and debated etc at OMB hearings. These days they don't seem to be accepted documents.

Those reports can often take one theory or hypothesis and then go tangentially off in one direction (usually that preferred by the client paying for the report) and justify a proposed building mix, density etc with very little backup.
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  #103  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2017, 6:26 PM
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FutureWickedCity FutureWickedCity is offline
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People should keep in mind that if the Sal moves to Vanier, it doesn't mean that every substance user and panhandler will move to Vanier with it. Don't forget that the Mission, The Shepherd's, The Sandy Hill Health Centre, and 99 Rideau will still be downtown!
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  #104  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2017, 8:56 PM
Vanier Vanier is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
The thing is both the city and Salvation Army know every neighbourhood would react exactly the same way, and Vanier would react the same way even if there were concessions, so there is little incentive to change anything.
Maybe the SA and the city should rethink their paradigm? Instead of doubling down on a model that is a failure maybe they should try a more proven approach such as housing first and work toward the elimination of the need for 350 bed shelters?
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  #105  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2017, 9:14 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by Vanier View Post
Maybe the SA and the city should rethink their paradigm? Instead of doubling down on a model that is a failure maybe they should try a more proven approach such as housing first and work toward the elimination of the need for 350 bed shelters?
Ironically, I think the SA's programming includes a "housing first" component. Although I agree that the nimbyesque controversy rather overshadows more important issues.
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  #106  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2017, 10:40 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by Vanier View Post
Maybe the SA and the city should rethink their paradigm? Instead of doubling down on a model that is a failure maybe they should try a more proven approach such as housing first and work toward the elimination of the need for 350 bed shelters?
I don't disagree, but Ottawa has been implementing a Housing First policy for several years and there is still significant demand for temporary shelter beds.
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  #107  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2017, 5:29 PM
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'Housing first' model pitched as alternative to Vanier homeless shelter
Symposium today on strategy advocates say is improvement on long-term shelter stays

CBC News Posted: Sep 19, 2017 5:30 AM ET Last Updated: Sep 19, 2017 7:47 AM ET


Opponents of the Salvation Army's controversial plan to open a large shelter on Montreal Road in Vanier are holding a symposium on an alternative model Tuesday.

The housing-first model "is the opposite of treatment first," said Tim Aubry, a University of Ottawa psychology professor who has studied homelessness and is one of the speakers signed up to talk at the symposium.

"It's getting people into housing first, quickly, and attaching support to it. It's getting people into regular housing, typically private market rental housing," Aubry told CBC Radio's Ottawa Morning Monday.

"It comes with support that's quite intensive, that involves either case management or a model called community treatment," he said. "People are followed very closely."

The model can also include housing co-ordinators who work with landlords on any issues that arise, Aubry said.

The Salvation Army's plan for its new shelter at 333 Montreal Rd. includes 350 beds, 140 of which would be reserved for emergency use.

Vanier resident and symposium organizer Randall Bartlett, a chief economist at the Institute of Fiscal Studies and Democracy at the University of Ottawa, said the housing-first model is a better way forward than emergency shelters.

"Emergency shelters are one of the least effective ways to help chronically and episodically homeless in our community, and it's also the most expensive way of helping those people," Bartlett told Ottawa Morning.

"Housing first is significantly more effective — and significantly cheaper as well."

And Vanier already boasts a lot of social services for people in need, Bartlett said, adding that the shelter proposal "would be like creating the downtown eastside in Vancouver."

"In the case of Vanier specifically, it is a low-income neighbourhood. And there was work done by city staff in 2008 that found concentrating social services within low-income neighbourhoods actually has very detrimental effects," he said.

Bartlett rejected the argument that he simply doesn't want the shelter in his neighbourhood.

"It's not about moving it somewhere else. It's about taking advantage of the opportunity to actually reduce the number of emergency shelters that we have and permanently house people," he said.

"As I said, I don't think it's a not-in-my-backyard [argument]. We already have more social services than any other neighbourhood in the city per square kilometre. The thing is, it [shouldn't be] in anyone's backyard. That's really what the issue is, that this is a failed model. It's the most expensive, and it's a failed model, and we should be moving on from this."

Emergency shelters still play an important role in a community, according to Tim Richter, president and CEO of the Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness.

But the number of beds needed, he said, depends on the homeless population in a city.

"You have to think of emergency shelters as a piece of your homeless system. In a perfect homeless system or in a well-designed homeless system, shelters are there to support people in a crisis. [They are] designed for short stays in a crisis situation, as opposed to a long-term stay situation."

Richter agreed it was more cost effective and efficient to move people out of shelters and into housing, especially as data shows 60 per cent of shelter space across Canada is used for long-term stays.

"A shelter is not a home. It's not designed to be a home and shouldn't be considered a solution to homelessness. Shelters do play an important role in a homeless system to meet that crisis need, to meet the need of somebody that suddenly loses their housing. And they play an important role in helping move people out of the homeless system quickly," he said.

"But they should not be used … for long-term accommodation."

Other people scheduled to talk at Tuesday's symposium include Rideau-Vanier Coun. Mathieu Fleury, who has spoken out against the Salvation Army's proposal.

The symposium also features Jaime Rogers, manager of the homeless and housing development department with the Medicine Hat Community Housing Society, and David Gibson, executive director at the Sandy Hill Community Health Centre.

With files from Ottawa Morning and Kimberley Molina

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...army-1.4294492
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