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  #1  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2007, 3:36 PM
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National Debt at Record $9 Trillion

And some Americans still think Bush has done a bang up job since he took office.....


WASHINGTON (AP) -- The national debt has hit $9 trillion for the first time.

The Treasury Department, which issues a daily accounting of the debt, said Wednesday that the debt subject to limit was at $9 trillion on Tuesday. It was $8.996 trillion on Monday.

Last month, Congress passed and President Bush signed into law an increase in the government's borrowing ceiling to $9.815 trillion. It was the fifth debt limit increase since Bush took office in January 2001. Those increases have totaled $3.865 trillion.

The administration contends the rising debt reflects such factors as slow economic growth during the 2001 recession, the Sept. 11 attacks and the cost of fighting terrorism.

Democrats place much of the blame for the exploding debt on Bush's first-term tax cuts, which they say are tilted to the wealthy. The administration says those tax cuts helped to jump-start the economy and resulted in falling budget deficits in recent years.

The tax cuts are set to expire at the end of 2010. The administration and Republicans in Congress want to see them made permanent; many Democrats would like to see them revamped to provide more benefits to lower and middle-income taxpayers.

The budget deficit for the 2007 budget year, which ended Sept. 30, was $162.8 billion, the lowest in five years.

In 2004, the deficit was $413 billion, a record in dollar terms.

The national debt is the total of the annual budget deficits plus money that the government borrows from the Social Security and other government trust funds.

The total national debt is actually higher than $9 trillion because it includes borrowing by some agencies that are not covered by the congressional debt limit. That total was $9.086 trillion on Tuesday.

It took the country from George Washington until Ronald Reagan to reach the first $1 trillion in debt.
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  #2  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2007, 9:44 PM
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Well, it looks like a hopeless cause, but on the bright side, we're lowering the deficit. It's gonna take legislation to stop the deficit spending, because I don't know of a single politician that will be able to control himself in the seat of the President. In any case, it NEEDS TO BE FIXED, or one day it's gonna bite us all in the asses REALLY hard... I'm talking biting our asses OFF. (Apologies for the lame analogy...)
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  #3  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 2:10 AM
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a government that operates as a prudish organization that doesn't do anything can be far worse than a government that spends money it doesn't have. This isn't the worst news in the world, and it needs to be measured against the GDP as a whole.

What I disagree with 110% is HOW this wasted money is being spent.
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  #4  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2007, 6:52 AM
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The US FEDERAL debt is $9 trillion but that doesn't include state debts which equal $2.3 trillion. When added together they represent 80% of GDP. Very high by OECD averages.
In 1992 Canada had the highest percapita debt in the G8 with combined federal and provincial debt at a staggering 96% and 79% of that was federal. A whopping one third of all federal taxes went to just pay the interest on the nation debt.
Even the World Bank was getting worried so we had to make the sacrifices to get the books back in the black. Within 3 years Canada had a balanced budget and has had a balanced/surplus budgets since. We have actually paid off 14% of our debt. No other OECD country has managed to have debt repayment and balanced budgets.

Our federal debt to GDP has plunged from 79% of GDP to just 29% and will be under 25% within 3 years or less.
The combined federal/provincial debt per capita has been halved from 96% to 49% and continues to fall. By 2019 the federal government will out of net federal debt and the combined fed/prov will have dropped to an estimated 21%.
How did we do it?.........spending cuts, no tax cuts we couldn't afford and even added a few smaller targeted ones. In other words, we bit the bullet and because of it Canada's fiscal future is secure unluike yours. Your debt and debt to GDP continue to rise with your social security unferfunded whereas ours is.
It also took a true social change. At the time many Canadians say the problem as troubling but not an emergency but that has TOTALLY changed. No federal government would even dare, regardless of political stripe, would do anything but balance the books and pay down the debt. Every budget since 1995 has not only been balanced but hasd a MINIMUM of $3 billion in debt repayment. That's equivalent of paying your debt down by $30 bil/year.
We have always done better that that $3 billion and the debt has actually declined by nearly $100 bil in the last 11 years which is slightly over one trillion in US economy terms.

The American public doesn't seem to realize how horrid your situation is which is why tax cuts are still the order of the day eventhough you can't afford them. This combined with all Bush's pet projects and a massively expensive war in Iraq and there you have it.

The funny thing is that 33% of all fed income going to pay interest on the national debt has dropped to just 10% and military, health, and social welfare funding has increased massively to provide even better services to a country with an already very extensive social welfare system AND has resulted in the biggest income and corporate tax cuts in Canadian history.

The lesson?.............short term pain for long term gain. Canada in the 90s really did have to bite the bullet but due to their sacrifice our future is secure for both the short and long term.

If it requires hyperboyle then so be it but Americans must be made aware in no uncertain terms that the country is near the brink and living on borrowed time is no longer an option.........period.
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Old Posted Feb 7, 2008, 6:34 PM
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This is ridiculous. All that money could have gone to Transportation, Healthcare, Education, etc.

But no......this little rabbit in the oval office thinks that the "Wore an Taaarer"(notice the accent) is more important.
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  #6  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2008, 1:10 AM
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$9 trillion or about $79,000 for each american taxpayer, the US debt has increased by something like $3.5 trillion under GWB's watch which is truly incredible
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  #7  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2008, 3:13 AM
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Not going to defend deficit spending...but its worth nothing that there are several OECD countries that run higher national debts, as a percentage of GDP.
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  #8  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2008, 5:05 AM
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I can't wait for some more trickle down government. Cut taxes for the rich, increase spending, increase disparities which then kills the economy. Perfect.
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Old Posted Feb 8, 2008, 5:21 PM
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One thing i've noticed is that when politicians talk about whether or not to tax the rich, they never speak of introducing the idea of separating the wealthy individual citizens with wealthy competitive businesses.
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  #10  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2008, 1:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
Not going to defend deficit spending...but its worth nothing that there are several OECD countries that run higher national debts, as a percentage of GDP.
thats very true, national debt in alot of OECD nations is spiralling out of control

The United States national debt currently stands at 36.8% of GDP; in comparison other OECD countries are doing rather poorly

Norway 39.1% of GDP
UK 43.3% of GDP
Austria 61% of GDP
Canada 64% of GDP
Germany 65.3% of GDP
France 66.6% of GDP
Belgium 86.1% of GDP
Italy 105.6% of GDP
Japan 182.4% of GDP

at least some OECD countries have slightly lower national debt than Japan

Australia 15.2% of GDP
Ireland 21.1% of GDP
South Korea 23.8% of GDP
Denmark 26.1% of GDP

Source: CIA world factbook https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...orld-factbook/
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  #11  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2008, 12:51 AM
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^ I don't think that's accurate. I the US's debt is 9 trillion that makes up only 37% of its GDP, then its GDP must be around $24 trillion, but the most recent estimates I've seen are around $14 trillion. The same thing with Canada; its national debt is under $1/2 a trillion and its GDP is about $1.25 trillion, so its debt makes up less than 40% of its GDP.

Is the CIA World Factbook known to have accuracy issues? I haven't had much experience with it...
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  #12  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2008, 4:08 AM
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I think the true GDP is kept secret; probably because of security reasons.

But the total money accumulated by this Country is probably in the tens of Trillions.......
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Old Posted Apr 1, 2008, 2:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
This is ridiculous. All that money could have gone to Transportation, Healthcare, Education, etc.

But no......this little rabbit in the oval office thinks that the "Wore an Taaarer"(notice the accent) is more important.
Oh that's funny. I'll be laughing about that for the rest of the day. It's so damn true. Hey, all not to worry, we have less than a year of this bozo left to go.
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  #14  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2008, 4:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
^ I don't think that's accurate. I the US's debt is 9 trillion that makes up only 37% of its GDP, then its GDP must be around $24 trillion, but the most recent estimates I've seen are around $14 trillion. The same thing with Canada; its national debt is under $1/2 a trillion and its GDP is about $1.25 trillion, so its debt makes up less than 40% of its GDP.

Is the CIA World Factbook known to have accuracy issues? I haven't had much experience with it...
I think he is referring to the current annual national budget deficit- which contributes to the national debt.

We also should point out that China currently owns well over a trillion dollars of our national debt. If there was any country or entity on the planet that could afford to buy the debt from China, China could buy out any of the following (assuming a 19% premium to stockholders, where applicable):

-All of our top 20 Financial Institutions (Citi, BofA, JPM, Wells Fargo, etc)
-All of our top 20 Retail Chains (Wal-Mart, Target, etc)
-The top 8 Fortune 500 companies.
-Over 5 million average family homes in the U.S.

I am sure there are resources out there stating a million other things you could buy with a trillion dollars. My point it, it is crazy how much power we are handing to China with our crazy deficits and war spending. I am not a big proponent of raising taxes, but we need to eat some of this burden ourselves if we are going to continue to vote for people that support unjustified spending, whether it be for wars or welfare.
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Old Posted Apr 1, 2008, 5:03 PM
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Originally Posted by weatherguru18 View Post
Oh that's funny. I'll be laughing about that for the rest of the day. It's so damn true. Hey, all not to worry, we have less than a year of this bozo left to go.
......after 8 years of rule, in which he twisted 9/11 DIRECTLY with the War in Iraq, foolishly becoming abstinant to the Kyoto Protocal Accord, and after long delays of responses to National Disasters, the Bush Administration is finally coming to an end.
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Old Posted Apr 1, 2008, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
I think the true GDP is kept secret; probably because of security reasons.

But the total money accumulated by this Country is probably in the tens of Trillions.......
That sounds a bit strange. First, why would releasing accurate GDP data be a security risk, and second, if the US was keeping such data a secret for security reasons, why would the CIA be leaking the accurate information on their website?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhxSprawler View Post
I think he is referring to the current annual national budget deficit- which contributes to the national debt.
Well that would be even more innacurate. A government deficit, which doesn't even include non deficit spending, would never be such a huge percentage of GDP - not unless it was a command economy in which the government was responsible for almost all economic capacity.
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Old Posted Apr 27, 2008, 1:29 PM
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I think some people mix up GDP and GNP. With most nations they are similar, but the United States wields so much economic power around the world that its GNP is far higher. (ie. American sneaker factories in China, American oil companies in Saudi, American shareholders of Bayer or Toyota)

That said, the debt and deficit are out of control. Canada has done an admirable job at eliminating federal deficit and reducing debt, but a new 7% federal sales tax would not go down well in the U.S. Also, provincial debt is not counted and all of the provinces (other than Alberta) carry significant debt loads. Most American states are not legally allowed to spend in deficit.

Wars are expensive. Pointless wars are, well, pointless. Tax cuts during wars are unheard of (until now of course). Infrastructure is crumbling but everyone seems to have the money for $3.50/gallon gasoline and a flat screen t.v. My point is, there are priority problems not fundamental economic problems (yet). Comparing Canada's or Italy's economies to that of the United States is kinda silly. Totally different scale and scope. In addition, if the American economy fails, so goes many others.
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Old Posted Apr 28, 2008, 5:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lfc4life View Post
thats very true, national debt in alot of OECD nations is spiralling out of control

The United States national debt currently stands at 36.8% of GDP; in comparison other OECD countries are doing rather poorly

Norway 39.1% of GDP
UK 43.3% of GDP
Austria 61% of GDP
Canada 64% of GDP
Germany 65.3% of GDP
France 66.6% of GDP
Belgium 86.1% of GDP
Italy 105.6% of GDP
Japan 182.4% of GDP

at least some OECD countries have slightly lower national debt than Japan

Australia 15.2% of GDP
Ireland 21.1% of GDP
South Korea 23.8% of GDP
Denmark 26.1% of GDP

Source: CIA world factbook https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...orld-factbook/
Many of those figures make no sense... unless they are way out of date.... Norway has an oil fund worth something like $250 billion US....
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Old Posted May 6, 2008, 4:11 PM
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It is a bit scary that much of the debt underlying these figures were run up during one of the most prosperous periods of US history.
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  #20  
Old Posted May 21, 2008, 6:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
It is a bit scary that much of the debt underlying these figures were run up during one of the most prosperous periods of US history.
Are you referring to the Reagan and Bush years as prosperous periods?
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