Ottawa Bypass Corridor

[Lakche]

I don't believe I've seen this posted anywhere in this section yet, but if it has sorry for the double-post.

According to the MTO website, under their "Planning for the Future" page on their Provincial Highways Construction Program section, one of the plans includes:

"Highway Ottawa - Bypass corridor study"

Link: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pub...08/partS.shtml

PDF: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pub...ing4Future.pdf


I'm curious to know if there is any other information about this out yet...

[Kitchissippi]

It's there so they can put a dot in Eastern Ontario and make it look like the Ontario Government is doing something outside the GTA

[Rathgrith]

^I know! Its like the MTO is attempting to look somewhat interested in those who live outside of the GTHA. I also doubt it will it off the ground in the next 50 to 1billion years.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Rathgrith

^I know! Its like the MTO is attempting to look somewhat interested in those who live outside of the GTHA. I also doubt it will it off the ground in the next 50 to 1billion years.

Even in Eastern Ontario, there are greater provincial priorities that are not currently on the books:

-Highway 417 needs to be extended up at least to Pembroke and Petawawa, if not North Bay (of course, that will never happen with a liberal government and a corridor going through a strongly small-c conservative area)

-Highway 401 needs to be widened to 6 lanes from Kingston to Cobourg

-Within Ottawa, major transit improvements are necessary

(Any Ottawa bridge would be a federal issue, so that is not included)

The traffic counts on Highway 417 west of Highway 7 are generally around 20,000 to 25,000 cars on a typical weekday. East of Anderson Road, traffic counts also run in the 20,000 to 30,000 range. While some may be picked up from Highways 7 and 416, that isn't enough to warrant a bypass right now. When they get up over 40,000 or so, then it might be warranted. Right now, it would either act as a sprawl magnet, or draw too few cars to be warranted with a corridor (Highway 417) below capacity for 20 hours a day after improvements.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Even in Eastern Ontario, there are greater provincial priorities that are not currently on the books:

-Highway 417 needs to be extended up at least to Pembroke and Petawawa, if not North Bay (of course, that will never happen with a liberal government and a corridor going through a strongly small-c conservative area)

-Highway 401 needs to be widened to 6 lanes from Kingston to Cobourg

-Within Ottawa, major transit improvements are necessary

(Any Ottawa bridge would be a federal issue, so that is not included)

The traffic counts on Highway 417 west of Highway 7 are generally around 20,000 to 25,000 cars on a typical weekday. East of Anderson Road, traffic counts also run in the 20,000 to 30,000 range. While some may be picked up from Highways 7 and 416, that isn't enough to warrant a bypass right now. When they get up over 40,000 or so, then it might be warranted. Right now, it would either act as a sprawl magnet, or draw too few cars to be warranted with a corridor (Highway 417) below capacity for 20 hours a day after improvements.

Also, you know for the cost of new highways or extension in the Ottawa region we could have our rapid transit paid and high speed rail to Montréal? It's not cost effective to invest in both, not at all.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Also, you know for the cost of new highways or extension in the Ottawa region we could have our rapid transit paid and high speed rail to Montréal? It's not cost effective to invest in both, not at all.

How do those corridors help out Ottawa-Montreal traffic? The 417 northwest corridor especially, it is 2 lanes, dangerous and over capacity.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

How do those corridors help out Ottawa-Montreal traffic? The 417 northwest corridor especially, it is 2 lanes, dangerous and over capacity.

It was just an example... I don't like seeing my tax dollars being spent in billions for 10000 vehicles per hour maximum.

[Davis137]

I agree that the 417 needs to extend past Arnprior. I know that the surveys were completed in 2007, and the gov't was removing trees and other obstacles in prep to strip the land where the extension to Renfrew will go last year. I haven't been back to Pet in almost a year now, and I don't know if the construction has started beyond the prep stages or not...

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Davis137

I agree that the 417 needs to extend past Arnprior. I know that the surveys were completed in 2007, and the gov't was removing trees and other obstacles in prep to strip the land where the extension to Renfrew will go last year. I haven't been back to Pet in almost a year now, and I don't know if the construction has started beyond the prep stages or not...

It's just getting started around Arnprior, but only about 5 km of new highway will be built in this stage. It should be finished in 2011, with the biggest work being the new Madawaska River bridge.

The rest is unfunded with no sign of any funding approval - there is about 115 km that is needed now. Traffic counts along that highway range from about 8,000 (which is just below capacity) on the Pembroke bypass to about 16,000 (WAY above capacity, needed 4 lanes many years ago) between Arnprior and Renfrew. Capacity for the most part in the flat terrain is about 10,500 given the truck traffic.

Once past Deep River, traffic volumes drop significantly - about 3,000 cars a day for the most part in the high Ottawa Valley. Costs also increase substantially as the terrain there is not friendly for highway-building. That would be a huge national investment, similar to highways like Interstate 90 in the most remote western areas.

[Rathgrith]

^I saw that a few months ago. I think the biggest obstacle is the building the bridges that span the rivers near Arnprior and Renfrew.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Rathgrith

^I saw that a few months ago. I think the biggest obstacle is the building the bridges that span the rivers near Arnprior and Renfrew.

There are two major bridge crossings required (the Madawaska and the Bonnechere). One of them will be done in this project. The other will take a while at the current pace, once they get to the Renfrew bypass. (It is currently being reconstructed, which should also help save money if a twinning project were to take place there). The rest of the busy section up to Petawawa (the Cobden area will be bypassed) isn't that hard at all.

After that, there are no major high-level water crossings until the really nasty section beyond Deep River, when it will surely need to overhang the Ottawa River and associated lakes and ponds at times.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

The 417 northwest corridor especially, it is 2 lanes, dangerous and over capacity.

Like hell it is dangerous. There is practically no such thing as a dangerous road, the exceptions being circumstances where things might fall down on you from above or from incorrect signage/marking giving incorrect information. What makes a road "dangerous" is the way people drive on it. Force the speed limit down to 50 km/h and blanket the thing with photo-radar issuing $500 tickets for speeding and the danger issue would pretty much go away. Ban cars entirely and permit only bicycles and no one could claim it is even remotely dangerous.

What various road improvements do is reduce the range and scope of dangerous driving options available to drivers by either raising the threshold for an action to become dangerous (i.e. increasing the radius of curves means that one has to drive a lot faster to run the risk of driving off the road) or by eliminating the possibility of a dangerous action altogether (i.e. twinning means that overtaking no longer runs the risk of a head-on collision). But however much the road engineers try, people still find ways to be dangerous. On freeways people will drive at or above the speed limit into a fog bank with limited visibility... but I suppose they'll just blame the fog bank for the ensuing pile-up.

Instead of admitting the actual problem we blame instead inanimate objects (e.g. the road, the fog bank), especially in cases where the socially-accepted norm is itself dangerous (i.e. driving too fast for the conditions). We see the same mindset at work with respect to railway level crossings. Time and again crossings are called "dangerous" but short of them being hidden and unmarked or placed on an embankment such that a vehicle can bottom out, they're not dangerous: there are always signs, usually bells and lights, often barriers and blaring train horns when there aren't. It is people's behaviour at level crossings that is dangerous when they try to "beat the train".

[eemy]

I don't think Highway 17 east of Arnprior to Renfrew has a particularly urgent need for 4-laning, at least compared to other highways in Ontario. It would be inline with Highway 6 north from Guelph to Arthur, and Highway 10 north to Shelbourne. Off the top of my head far more necessary improvements include, Highway 6 between Hamilton and Guelph with 25000 aadt converging on a narrow two lane highway through Morristown (that's busier than the 416 except where it enters Barrhaven) and Highway 7 between Kitchener and Guelph (though that's already been discussed).

[waterloowarrior]

The cost for construction of the lastest 17 widening will be around $71 million, or about $13.8 million per KM.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

The cost for construction of the lastest 17 widening will be around $71 million, or about $13.8 million per KM.

I'm sure over half of that will be for the Madawaska River bridge. It won't be cheap as it is well above the river with a hydro dam right beside it.

[flar]

Why would anyone want to extend a freeway past Arnprior? That would be a colossal waste of money, the existing highway is virtually deserted.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by flar

Why would anyone want to extend a freeway past Arnprior? That would be a colossal waste of money, the existing highway is virtually deserted.

Are you kidding? Have you been on there at any time of day other than in the overnight hours? I've been through 20-30 minute waits at traffic lights on regular weekdays - not just on long weekends.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by flar

Why would anyone want to extend a freeway past Arnprior? That would be a colossal waste of money, the existing highway is virtually deserted.

I guess the main reason would be Petawawa, a major Forces base. In the US, the Americans would almost think it inconceivable that a military base would not be accessible by wide roads on which to transport tanks and large equipment. The Interstate system was initially designed with defense in mind after World War II, to be able to quickly move troops and weapons across the US.

I often wonder how they transport explosives and arms into the base, and whether some of this stuff actually comes down the Queensway.

[flar]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Are you kidding? Have you been on there at any time of day other than in the overnight hours? I've been through 20-30 minute waits at traffic lights on regular weekdays - not just on long weekends.

Are you kidding? I find that hard to believe. Where are you talking about?

[harls]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

The Interstate system was initially designed with defense in mind after World War II, to be able to quickly move troops and weapons across the US.

I've also heard that every fifth mile of an interstate must be straight, so in an emergency planes can land on them.

... but that may be a myth, I dunno..