Is Ottawa the City that Fun Forgot?

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

^^ I've had a few exchanges with such people and when they're all done huffing and puffing I respond with "... and yet you're still here. Why?"

That's usually when they go blank because they have no 'fashionable', scripted response to throw out.

Yawn.

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by Jim613

Great point and never really looked at it that way, but it makes sense.

Expense accounts = funny money = big variety of businesses flock to certain cities to cash in on the funny money

Ottawa, on the other hand is a middle-class city with no real mega-rich or mega-poor, so we'll always have middle-class services (which is not always a bad thing)

And don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, just coming a realization I guess


(sorry for the multi-posts everyone)

Further to being "middle-class" as you kind of define it, Ottawa is also the Federal Government city. I believe that government employees/departments are less able to receive perks from suppliers, such as event tickets and business dinners, that would be expensed. So where a supplier might take a private-sector client on a fancy dinner or to a concert/game, they might not be able to take a public-sector client.

[TOexpat]

Yes, unfortunately Ottawa is an incredibly boring city where there is a severe lack of anything interesting to do. I attribute this mostly to the fact that it is a government town that attracts risk averse people. It is the antithesis of creative or innovative. People who are interesting, ambitious and curious leave Ottawa as they know how incredibly lame it is. Just look at the real estate. When is the last time that something interesting and different got built? Unfortunate, but just the way it is.

[Jim613]

Originally Posted by TOexpat

Yes, unfortunately Ottawa is an incredibly boring city where there is a severe lack of anything interesting to do. I attribute this mostly to the fact that it is a government town that attracts risk averse people. It is the antithesis of creative or innovative. People who are interesting, ambitious and curious leave Ottawa as they know how incredibly lame it is. Just look at the real estate. When is the last time that something interesting and different got built? Unfortunate, but just the way it is.

Aside from the type of people who live here, why do you suppose the lack of interesting things to do or intersting real estate comes from?

My theory is that's is due mostly to where we are. We are ~2 hours away from city of 2 million people and are about ~4 hours away from a city of 4 million people.

Sure, maybe boring people live here and those boring people demand boring stuff, but being sandwhiched between 2 major centres probably doesn't help.

If there's money to be made, why focus on a small-medium centre when you can focus on the nearby bigger centres and just count on those from the smaller centres to travel and/or relocate to spend their money.

I'm not expert and these are my own thoughts, so take them as they are. Also, I'd be curious to see how this plays out in other parts where you have a big centre close to a small-medium centre (Calgary and Edmonton come to mind but I'm sure there are other examples in Canada and the world

[S-Man]

Canada is the world's most boring country... this is a well recognized fact... at least outside Canada's borders. There's a saying among Korean university English students: "Canada is a boring heaven but Korea is an interesting hell"... And this my friends is so very true.This is why I left Canada 8 years ago... Bo fucking ring. And guest what city i was living in at the time... That's right: Montreal. The most interesting city in Canada. Can be fun but oh crap is it ever overrated; once you've been around the globe Mtl is meh. So, to get back to the subject: the rest of Canada craps on Ottawa because it is the black sheep... It's the common target. The phenomenon is the same as in in a 8th grade classroom. Let's shit on that guy because everyone is already shitting on him and by doing so, no one will shit on me. Thankfully, Ottawans are not full of themselves, which would make them look like Calgarians. In conclusion... its' all dull... dull dull dull... except our sister city 200 kms to the east, which is sometimes less dull.. and maybe St-Johns also. And for those assholes who think Ottawa has crazy regulations, please spend a few months in Montreal; you, will, be, stunned.

Holy Jesus.

Listen, this asshole here (me, apparently - thanks) is just saying that maybe - just maybe - Ottawa could stand to loosen the regulatory thing a bit and let people and businesses try some new things.

I am not saying that Ottawa is the most regulated city in the world. This isn't a black and white competition between cities.

I'm just trying to say things can be improved. To improve things, you need to identify what needs improvement. I'm not flame-warring my own city because I'm desperately jealous I don't live in Toronto or Asia.

You must be fun at parties.

[kevinbottawa]

When I moved to Ottawa almost 5 years ago from Toronto, there was a lot lacking, but slowly I've had less reasons to miss Toronto. I really don't know how people can say Ottawa will never catch up to Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, and Calgary, and other world cities. There's crazy potential here which is why I never went back to Toronto after my job in Parliament finished. Lansdowne, LRT, waterfront development, mall expansions. There's a lot on the horizon. I know a lot of people in Toronto who think Ottawa sucks, but I know others, who are well-travelled, that love it here and would move here.

Don't get me wrong. A lot needs to change in Ottawa. But you can either complain about it or do something about it.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

I know a lot of people in Toronto who think Ottawa sucks, but I know others, who are well-travelled, that love it here and would move here.

I would add that it's not exactly unusual for people living in a large city to think less of a smaller city, even though it may be quite nice.

Ask a New Yorker what they think of Boston as a city. You'd swear they were describing Boise, Oklahoma.

[S-Man]

Boise is in Idaho - no one ever gives the Potato State due recognition!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Boise is in Idaho - no one ever gives the Potato State due recognition!

I think there's one in Oklahoma as well! Much smaller.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think there's one in Oklahoma as well! Much smaller.

Correct. MUCH smaller, my intent was of course to be hyperbolic!

It was featured in an interesting documentary I just watched on Netflix, Ken Burns: The Dust Bowl.

[1overcosc]

Ottawa is a middle class city. Very few people in Ottawa are rich-rich (like 250k+), or poor. Almost everybody is middle to upper middle class. These are the kind of the people who are wealthy enough to be financially comfortable but not wealthy enough to be classy or hedonistic. They're also the kind of people who are more focused on raising the kids, buying more nice stuff for your house, etc. rather than going out to party, and also the kind of people who like to play it safe.

These kind of people are also the type who are generally satisfied with their lives, which is why a lot of the people who live here don't have much issue with the city's boringness. Those who aren't in this demographic will obviously get restless & uncomfortable living in this city. But if you are one of those upper-middle class people I described above, Ottawa is heaven.

[S-Man]

I think there's one in Oklahoma as well! Much smaller.

My apologies! I learn something new every day, I can't imagine what the good folks in Boise, Idaho think of their Oklahoman brethren!

As for 1overcosc's assertion of Ottawa being mainly middle-to-upper middle class, census data reflects this - however, Ottawa is not a single person making $88,000 or so a year.

Ottawa has a large number of working poor that I'm sure are invisible to the other half of the divide.

Ever fill up at a gas station? Been through the checkout at a grocery store lately? Had your car serviced somewhere? The people doing these jobs are not all summer students, nor are they federal government workers looking to re-connect with the common man on their off hours.

Saying there's no poor or working poor in Ottawa is painting a rosy glow over the city that is false, and can be construed as elitist. Did you know the city's social housing registry has a 10,000 person waitlist on top of the tens of thousands of units already occupied? That's on top of the two/three people pooling their money to afford the rent on a $1,200 apartment groups, and driving a '95 Sunfire to work that second job.

Median income is high, but by its very nature there has to be people at the low end of the scale to get it there.

[ue]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Neither I nor anyone I hang out with ever has any difficulty having fun in Ottawa...of the good clean variety, or otherwise.

People who complain about such things must either:

a) have very limited/niche interests,
b) be piggy-backing this 'fashionable' criticism because Ottawa isn't like cities 3-5 times its size,
c) be of the type that isn't happy unless they're miserable about something.

Next thread.

If I may offer an outsiders opinion...

I agree that it's absurd to compare Ottawa to Toronto or Montreal, or London or Berlin for that matter; these cities are older, bigger, and far more important than Ottawa is currently.

But I think even compared to Edmonton or Calgary, Ottawa is a bit dull. It's got the pretty angles that postcards are made of, but the streets are kind of sterile. Of course Edmonton and Calgary are newer cities and thus don't have the charm of Lowertown or the grandeur of Parliament Hill, but they both have an energy to them that Ottawa seems to lack. They're both popular cities for middle incomer earners too, and are seen as a "great place to raise the kids", but they're still very youthful and dynamic, and I think that helps things.

Maybe I'm a bit biased with the Prairie cities, but if I had to describe Ottawa in one word, it would be contrived.

[YOWflier]

^ Ottawa contrived? Hmmm. A bit of a discrediting statement if there was one. Go check out Brasilia or Canberra (I've visited both ... you?), and then make a comparison.

As for Ottawa vs. Calgary/Edmonton, I'd certainly say that's a more appropriate contest. Your sentiment is one that I can't agree with, having spent time in both.

New York has an energy ... Calgary/Edmonton? Nice try.

[ue]

^ You just bitched about Ottawa being compared to cities 3-5x the size and then compare Edm/Cgy to NYC? WTF? Double standard much. Compared to Ottawa, Edmonton and Calgary are much more energetic cities. Compared to NY? Of course not, get real.

Yeah, it isn't like Canberra or Brasilia in that it wasn't a wholly master-planned city built from scratch, but Ottawa served little purpose before being crowned the capital. It would not have naturally became a large city (by Canadian standards) had it not been crowned as such. There wasn't anything naturally lucrative about the area Ottawa sits on. It was the hinterlands and that's partly why Ottawa was crowned capital.

[YOWflier]

Take a deep breath and calm yourself down.

I wasn't comparing Edmonton/Calgary to New York. I was giving an example of a city with energy. Neither Edmonton nor Calgary are valid examples. Sorry.

Now run along.

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by ue

If I may offer an outsiders opinion...

I agree that it's absurd to compare Ottawa to Toronto or Montreal, or London or Berlin for that matter; these cities are older, bigger, and far more important than Ottawa is currently.

But I think even compared to Edmonton or Calgary, Ottawa is a bit dull. It's got the pretty angles that postcards are made of, but the streets are kind of sterile. Of course Edmonton and Calgary are newer cities and thus don't have the charm of Lowertown or the grandeur of Parliament Hill, but they both have an energy to them that Ottawa seems to lack. They're both popular cities for middle incomer earners too, and are seen as a "great place to raise the kids", but they're still very youthful and dynamic, and I think that helps things.

Maybe I'm a bit biased with the Prairie cities, but if I had to describe Ottawa in one word, it would be contrived.

I see where you are coming from; that on the surface, Ottawa seems sterile. It might appear that outside of a few central districts, it lacks a certain vibrancy. When it comes to Ottawa though, I find a lot of people don't seem to want to look beyond the surface for whatever reason. They judge without really knowing what is going on (maybe that is normal?). There is an energy in this city too many people do not see or care to discover. You might be surprised what you can find going on here if you are willing to step outside of your comfort zone a little bit or just ignore what people say (Ottawa is boring, there is nothing to do, etc...) and look for yourself. If you are determined to have a good time, I think you can have that in this city.

[ue]

^ I actually never expected Ottawa to be boring or dull or whatever before I visited it. I went in with an open mind and actually thought the city had a certain coolness to it, and while I did like many aspects of the city, I can definitely see why some might think of it as the city that fun forgot.

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by ue

^ I actually never expected Ottawa to be boring or dull or whatever before I visited it. I went in with an open mind and actually thought the city had a certain coolness to it, and while I did like many aspects of the city, I can definitely see why some might think of it as the city that fun forgot.

Fair enough. I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that Ottawa is 'the city that fun forgot', I do see how some might think of it as such (especially if the last time they visited was 5-10 + years ago) but I think that is an unwarranted title in 2014. Just for the record, I have been to Edmonton once, it was nice. Though I didn't have a chance to experience this energy you speak of when I was there, I hope I will get a chance to see that someday.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by S-Man

My apologies! I learn something new every day, I can't imagine what the good folks in Boise, Idaho think of their Oklahoman brethren!

As for 1overcosc's assertion of Ottawa being mainly middle-to-upper middle class, census data reflects this - however, Ottawa is not a single person making $88,000 or so a year.

Ottawa has a large number of working poor that I'm sure are invisible to the other half of the divide.

Ever fill up at a gas station? Been through the checkout at a grocery store lately? Had your car serviced somewhere? The people doing these jobs are not all summer students, nor are they federal government workers looking to re-connect with the common man on their off hours.

Saying there's no poor or working poor in Ottawa is painting a rosy glow over the city that is false, and can be construed as elitist. Did you know the city's social housing registry has a 10,000 person waitlist on top of the tens of thousands of units already occupied? That's on top of the two/three people pooling their money to afford the rent on a $1,200 apartment groups, and driving a '95 Sunfire to work that second job.

Median income is high, but by its very nature there has to be people at the low end of the scale to get it there.

Of course Ottawa has low-income people. I never denied that. What I'm saying is that their overall share of the total population is smaller than in other cities.