[St. John's] Transport development (Highways, Airport, and Public Transit)

[jjavman]

Originally Posted by djslue

Anyone have a detailed map of where the TGH is going to go ? All the ones I found online are too small to really see

I would like to know as well.

Cannot figure out from what is online, how it affects Brookfield Road?

[rthomasd]

This is the only one I've seen posted. From what I hear, they haven't secured all the land needed south of Topsail Rd and the Feds wanted changes near the Experimental Farm.
http://www.tw.gov.nl.ca/publications...sion_route.pdf

[djslue]

Thanks ! So what happens if people don't want to sell their land ? I seen on google maps how far it has came and it seems to be coming up on people's farms

[jjavman]

Originally Posted by rthomasd

This is the only one I've seen posted. From what I hear, they haven't secured all the land needed south of Topsail Rd and the Feds wanted changes near the Experimental Farm.
http://www.tw.gov.nl.ca/publications...sion_route.pdf

Yes on the land, but it's never been clear to me from this diagram how Brookfield Road and the new one interact? It looks from the map like the new one is over the top of Brookfield. Maybe just a poor diagram. Side by side?

[wmemeadusjr]

Originally Posted by jjavman

Yes on the land, but it's never been clear to me from this diagram how Brookfield Road and the new one interact? It looks from the map like the new one is over the top of Brookfield. Maybe just a poor diagram. Side by side?

All these maps are terrible. Kids could do a better job. It wouldn't surprise me if the designer of these maps is someone on the sunshine list.

[Chew]

Originally Posted by jjavman

Yes on the land, but it's never been clear to me from this diagram how Brookfield Road and the new one interact? It looks from the map like the new one is over the top of Brookfield. Maybe just a poor diagram. Side by side?

I live and work in the area and have been trying to figure that out for years... still not sure. The map makes it look like Brookfield Road will just get cut off and taken over. From everything I've been able to gather, that's not the case, but I can't make much sense of it.

[rthomasd]

I believe the TGH is supposed to parallel Brookfield Rd with an overpass east of Pearltown Rd and another at Brookfield Road between Heavy Tree Road and Tobin's Road.
Source: http://www.ceaa-acee.gc.ca/052/detai....cfm?pid=55235

To make that happen they wanted to cutoff a private farm road and the entrance to the Fed Experimental Farm and put them on a new road. Since they haven't done that, there must be a problem along that route. There's not been even brush clearing west of the current end of the roadbed.

[J_Murphy]

Originally Posted by rthomasd

I believe the TGH is supposed to parallel Brookfield Rd with an overpass east of Pearltown Rd and another at Brookfield Road between Heavy Tree Road and Tobin's Road.
Source: http://www.ceaa-acee.gc.ca/052/detai....cfm?pid=55235

To make that happen they wanted to cutoff a private farm road and the entrance to the Fed Experimental Farm and put them on a new road. Since they haven't done that, there must be a problem along that route. There's not been even brush clearing west of the current end of the roadbed.

Must be a problem with along that route? There is a problem with the entire project, i.e., nothing is happening anywhere!

I suspect this portion is held up as the province likely has to expropriate some private properties. That likely takes a long time, especially if dealing with multiple properties, and one of them being the federal government. If they can't finish it, they should consider just bringing it to a 3-way intersection with Brookfield Road.

[jjavman]

Originally Posted by rthomasd

I believe the TGH is supposed to parallel Brookfield Rd with an overpass east of Pearltown Rd and another at Brookfield Road between Heavy Tree Road and Tobin's Road.
Source: http://www.ceaa-acee.gc.ca/052/detai....cfm?pid=55235

To make that happen they wanted to cutoff a private farm road and the entrance to the Fed Experimental Farm and put them on a new road. Since they haven't done that, there must be a problem along that route. There's not been even brush clearing west of the current end of the roadbed.

I agree this is what seems to be described looking at that info page.

I've taken the liberty of marking a screen capture of the area from GE. Could it be maybe like this? Paralleling North of Brookfield certainly seems to disturb less properties and cross less roads, but what do I know ;-)


Actually restudying my own map, I am more convinced this is the case, except I think maybe the first overpass they are talking about is East of where I marked (first road); and the Experimental farm entrance would feed into that first road, leaving one overpass to cross Brookfield just West of Tobin's Road as described! I stand to be corrected as always.

[rthomasd]

I visited the area off Redmonds Road, the only place that shows any activity (other than the overpass on Topsail Rd), and they are burying a pipe (electrical) down the middle of the roadbed. They've almost reached the Redmonds Rd underpass with the pipe and they've already trenched on the other side of the underpass towards Blackmarsh Rd. I'll post a picture in awhile.

They haven't started to remove the Blackmarsh Rd bypass and there's no work at the Old Pennywell Rd underpass.

[jjavman]

I used this as the title because the city uses the term.

I read this article today which made me think of a bunch of recent initiatives by the city's traffic committee.

http://vocm.com/news/drivers-none-to...-restrictions/

St. John's is becoming increasingly congested it seems; not sure why, or if it's reality or just my perception. We live in a city in which the older section's roads are built on former cart paths, and frequently these "cart paths" are the only direct routes into or out of the downtown core.

Which brings me to my point:

The city has recently (due to concerns of residents they state), started hindering these routes all over the city, with so called "traffic calming" ideas and devices. I say hindering, because in this city which lacks sufficient modern wide avenues to reach adjoining sections; the traffic calming initiatives usually just serve to appease the noisy few on a particular street.

This serves to shunt the traffic load to a neighbouring street (are their kids any less deserving of safety?), and also serve to bottleneck the traffic, as it is funneled into routes less "hindered".

A perfect recent example is of course, Old Topsail Road (there are numerous others).

There were quite a few vocal residents of that street (some prominent local activists), who managed to sway council to implement a bunch of ridiculous (IMHO), measures to that route. Did it work? It sure did! It shunted the traffic flow doubly onto Craigmillar Ave., a street that is argueably less suited to it (no off street parking), and has significant twists and turns! Again, are their kids no less deserving of safety?

So where does it stop? If Craigmillar residents asked and received the same treatment, 2 direct routes to downtown from the West end are now bottle necked. Then Hamilton Ave. folks get upset, and so on ..... you see my point.

I started this post after reading the above headline, which I will readily admit may be necessary (eliminate a left turn across 2 lanes of traffic with no lights), but it got me thinking about how many of the city's traffic decisions are "knee jerk" solutions!

Speaking of "left turn across 2 lanes of traffic"; the one that blows me away is the, still legal left turn from Columbus Drive onto Empire Ave. W., across 2 lanes of traffic doing more than 80km/hr and coming over the rise of a hill. I wrote Doc O'Keefe about this maybe 10 years ago, and he was gonna "look into it".

Sorry for the long post !!!

[rthomasd]

That intersection will need a review soon -

1) if / when the collector road to TGH gets done, that area will get a lot more traffic and

2) when the main entrance to the Avalon Mall gets moved to intersect Polina Rd, Polina will see a lot more traffic since it will be a direct access route from Columbus to Kenmount. Also may be a quick route from TGH to the lower part of Kenmount via Polina.

[J_Murphy]

I wonder if this has anything to do with TGH extension:

http://www.stjohns.ca/media-release/...t-road-closure

[Offshore1]

Originally Posted by J_Murphy

I wonder if this has anything to do with TGH extension:

http://www.stjohns.ca/media-release/...t-road-closure

I was thinking the same thing. Could this be a sign of some route planning for the TGH?
Like other recent posts, I'm wondering about the route the TGH will take at Brookfield Rd. An updated map from the govt. would be nice. Surely with all the construction delays there aren't still more delays to come because the land/route is not squared away at this point?

[rthomasd]

That area is certainly part of the TGH construction. There was a house on Heavy Tree with two driveways, and the house is gone now (can still see the driveways and rubble). The old construction map shows what's going through there. A sure sign that eventually there'll be some work going on there.

As they've started the Topsail Rd overpass, likely another tender for that area next year or so after they've got some work done - no point in doing that massive overpass without an intent in using it.

[rthomasd]

There's work just started at the area of Old Penneywell Rd and Beothuck St., that's where the TGH collector road joins Old Penneywell. Maybe they are actually going to do that road !

[J_Murphy]

Originally Posted by rthomasd

There's work just started at the area of Old Penneywell Rd and Beothuck St., that's where the TGH collector road joins Old Penneywell. Maybe they are actually going to do that road !

I hope so. To me, it would make sense to try and open the road to Blackmarsh and open this collector before they try to get it open to Topsail Road and beyond.

There has been no apparent work at Blackmarsh in a while either.

[jjavman]

This could have some merit if done properly.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...hill-1.4258177

[jjavman]

Originally Posted by jjavman

This could have some merit if done properly.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...hill-1.4258177

Unable to convey the concept? For 150 metres of road? Read political capitol and BS.

[jjavman]

Here's a question that's bugged me for awhile.

Why are not buried culverts used more for single road underpasses (thinking of Team Gushue), instead of engineered bridges?

Is it a quality vs. cost issue?

TCH has several of them for feeder road access, and they can be corrugated steel or concrete pre-cast.

Here's one neat example I found.
https://www.anchorconcrete.com/!PDF/...t_Brochure.pdf

Anyone? I've been trying to find out on the web.