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  #81  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2007, 5:42 AM
EastPDX EastPDX is offline
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I would ..

... say the Gateway District being on the I-84 and I-205 is the biggest asset. MAX in three(soon four) directions would be a close second. Third is the access to PDX. Being in Mid-county (200,000 people to the East and West) makes Gateway a natural focal point. Being close to great Chinese Food on 82nd doesn't hurt either. Short drives, transit, or walks to shopping in Gateway, Clackamas TC, East, or West. A MAX trip to the Lloyd District or the Rose Garden is only 10-15 minutes and four to six stops. Walking trails on Mt. Tabor and around Glendover Public Golf course helps. And a large hospital for those of us who think about that kind of stuff. Good access for people from Washington trying to get out of paying sales taxes is a driver too.

So the best answer is easy access to lots of stuff.

EP
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  #82  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2007, 3:46 PM
Urbanpdx Urbanpdx is offline
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Thanks EastPDX, why do you think that real estate values have been on the lower side there?
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  #83  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2007, 9:25 PM
mcbaby mcbaby is offline
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maybe the stigma and the strip malls have something to do with it.
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  #84  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2007, 2:12 AM
EastPDX EastPDX is offline
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urbanpdx, I would say this: Lack of good paying jobs. The only higher paying positions are doctors and lawyers. Not a very good and diverse job market. Look at Downtown PDX, you have many higher paying positions. People like living close to their employment. Washington County has a good high tech base and people in high tech just like the service sector Downtown see advantages to being closer to the job location.

Higher paying employment regions are where the highest land values are in PDX. Kruse Way is another example.

So, in Gresham, we have an area of land (called Springwater) that I had citizen input on. It is designated as an employment district by Metro, the state, and the city. Hopefully it will not fill up in the next twenty years with warehouses (there are warehouses going up in the Columbia River Corridor like crazy). We did alot of visioning on the district for many reasons: protection of the forest land, stream beds, hills, and character. It will, in my opinion, be an amazing place once its built out as planned. But it has one major issue that the City of Gresham can't fix without State, County, and neighbors help.

Downtown PDX has had good access for over one century (focal point for overnment and commerce). People forget that the Silicon Forest and the investments that Hillsboro did back in the 1980s didn't truly pencil t until the new century. The plots stood vacant for a decade. But Washington County has US26 going right by the plots that have been waiting.

Gresham and Springwater will need a connector from US-26 to I-84 and also the Sunrise Corridor would need to be connecting to US-26. No major bio-tech, nano-tech, or other manufacturing/research corporation or public/private entity is going to come to Springwater without this connector and/or light rail type investment.

The planner and the team members of the Springwater team heard this from me and others.

So my answer to you is this: Without public investment in access assets (streetcars, highways, light rail, bike lanes) you don't see higher paying jobs and thus higher land values. The Gateway District was already developing long before the I-205 corridor was paid for and build (the corridor sat there for what ten years as the construction moved North). The 102nd Avenue shopping malls (Gateway mainly) developed for families like my parents on SE 148th back in the 50s/60s as the car-centered developers raced East.

The County, City, and State never thought about employment centers then like they started to back in the 1970s and 1980s. East County developed before regional planning and Metro. Once you understand the timeline, you understand why East County hasn't been able to break out of the zoning and development concepts pre-SB1 and Oregons smarter land use laws of the 1970s.

I know you don't like to hear this but it is the truth and the process and timeline I just described to you are there for anyone who wishes to see them and the streets and the subdivisions of East County don't lie.

It will take many years and some critical access investments (my guess is a major employment corridor from Troutdale down to Damascus with light rail being extended to Mt Hood CC and a solution for freight movement from US-26 to I-84) to improve what wasn't done before.

EP
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  #85  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2007, 4:18 PM
Urbanpdx Urbanpdx is offline
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Thanks EP,

So, with what you know, if you were a developer looking for a project would you choose Gateway or would you wait and see while investing elsewhere?
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  #86  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 12:28 AM
EastPDX EastPDX is offline
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urbanpdx, I would think ...

... all the developers are waiting for the 102nd work to start. Then they can seriously go in and offer the land owners a fair price. That is first from a timing question. As for a type of development, I would go with a retirement/low income/retail mix. Since the area doesn't have the higher paying jobs that we talked about earlier, using the retirement portion to support the low income apartments. Tax abatements might be available with the low income apartments being in the urban redevelopment zone. Retail should and always has worked in Gateway.

I believe all the developers see the same thing I and others see. Five to ten story redevelopment projects in all the parking lots and along all the major avenues. Parking will be centralized (structures) and underground. The land is too important to be surface parking. Similar to what is happening now in Downtown PDX and out in the The Round area of Beaverton.

EP
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  #87  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 1:24 AM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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I totally agree. The Damascus/Springwater area does need more infrastructure to properly develop it as the plans have envisioned for the area; including a highway and to extend the 205 lightrail into the area - and perhaps a mixed-use path extended from the trail loop that winds its way through the portland metro area.

Accessibility and mobility is key to cohesively connect the region together, and is part of what leads to higher land values and thus higher quality development. Well, hopefully anyway - it still takes intent and money to do things above and beyond the norm.
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  #88  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 9:56 AM
mcbaby mcbaby is offline
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condo project on se belmont (portland)

does anyone recall a thread about the condo project at the old tice electric company on 21st and se belmont?
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  #89  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 11:47 AM
sirsimon sirsimon is offline
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Yep. It was kind of a long building - I remember people here commenting that it needed to be broken up visually. There was also an article in the Oregonian about it, as I recall reading comments from neighbors who felt unhappy about the prospect of having this building there.
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  #90  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 4:05 PM
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MarkDaMan MarkDaMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanpdx
I've never understood the draw of Gateway. Mark, why, other than low cost and a LRT station and freeway access, would anyone want to live in Gateway?

I'm not trying to be insulting, I just want to know.
no offense taken. I was living in the Hollywood in a house and wanted to downsize to an apartment to make sure I could deal with condo living...didn't want to buy something I wasn't going to enjoy living in, and since I never really lived in multi-unit housing outside a year in a downtown high rise, I thought I'd try. Anyway, my landlord's son had just bought a new building in Gateway and needed tenants fast. The price was good, the place decent, and the guy's a friend, so I've just been kicking it watching the condo market to weaken for the past two years now.

I never thought I'd end up near Gateway though, to tell you the truth. However, since I have lived there for some time now, I can see how a few major developments could tranform the entire district. I also feel the same about 'downtown' Hollywood. I could hope the PDC would align it's priorities with Metro's and build these town centers up and dense as invisioned.
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  #91  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 4:26 PM
Urbanpdx Urbanpdx is offline
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Thanks for the insight Mark. There are several nice properties available for sale in Gateway, I just don't see anyone jumping.

I'm sorry about your market timing on buying. The condo market flattened in the fall of 06 but I really doubt you'll ever see 2004-2005 prices (or interest rates) again without a MAJOR economic disaster. I don't have a crystal ball but housing prices are what urban economists call "sticky" in the downward direction. Oh well, there are a lot of advantages to renting that are not widely discussed.
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  #92  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 4:30 PM
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^maybe not jumping yet, but those with foresight know to invest before gentrification. We'll see.

I've been looking at a couple reaaaaly promising deals lately. I was waiting for the 1700 building to progress further, even talked to my friend who works for G-E, well, it appears the building wont start until probably this fall at the soonest, so I've turned my attention. The interest rates have been holding pretty steady, and the prices for condos have continued to decline, slightly. If I am to purchase a place, it will be soon. Otherwise I'm going back to school full time for a career change...
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  #93  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 4:49 PM
Urbanpdx Urbanpdx is offline
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Long term rates are doing pretty good but the 3% 5/1 arms are a thing of the past. I know of several "investors" who are having trouble flipping the condos they bought last year. A guy with some time on his hands might be able to get one to bite if he made low offers on a lot of different places.

What price range are you looking in? Downtown only?
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  #94  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 4:53 PM
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Quote:
Downtown only?
hahaaa...only if I was a fool. It's not that I can't afford a place downtown, but you add in HOA fees monthly, one place even had monthly parking fees, for downtown properties and can kiss the extra cushion money away.
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  #95  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 5:50 PM
Urbanpdx Urbanpdx is offline
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Oh, I assumed you did not have a car. Where are you looking?
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  #96  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 7:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanpdx
Oh, I assumed you did not have a car.
why? I've been looking Southeast, Gresham, Fairview, and one in NoPo.
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  #97  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 7:33 PM
Urbanpdx Urbanpdx is offline
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Your anti-auto bias of course!



Which projects in SE and North? I think Gresham and Fairview are too far away from everything myself...
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  #98  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 8:30 PM
mcbaby mcbaby is offline
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i wish i could find a rendering of it or a developers link
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  #99  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 9:13 PM
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^ha, I'm certainly not anti-auto. I love my truck. It gets me to Silver Falls for weekend hiking, a trip through the Gorge, up to Helens, skiing on Hood. I just don't need it to get to and from work, the store, local errands, or going out on the weekends.

I was seriously looking at a condo in Cascadian Court in the Lloyd. It was just too small. I've been looking more at townhomes than condos lately. Some of Portland is just too expensive for what you get, even with location, so when I see a two story, two bedroom townhome in Gresham, vs. a 1 *uhumm* bedroom with a deck big enough to do a circle in, it's hard to choose the condo. And, since this is my first home I am seriously needing to get something I think will retain its value, considering the price difference between sq footage in Gresham vs. Portland, I might have to to settle for the burb and something not quite so 2007 new.
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  #100  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 11:26 PM
Urbanpdx Urbanpdx is offline
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But don't you think that the ease of building a new building in Gresham will keep it from growing as quickly as the Portland buildings?

Which project in N were you looking at?
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