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Old Posted Jul 23, 2017, 8:46 PM
WolselyMan WolselyMan is offline
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Green Space Of Winnipeg - official thread/discussion



Hi there! I'm starting a new thread dedicated entirely to general discussions that relate to green space in Winnipeg. I always felt that this whole topic really deserves an entirely separate thread for itself, especially in the light of recent events such as the whole Parker Lands fiasco.

But before we start, I think it would help to clarify exactly we mean by "green space." What is meant by the term can be very broad, and it's meaning isn't limited solely to public parks. Basically, Green Space refers to any kind of urban space that is both relatively undeveloped and nature oriented in it's land use. Generally meant for recreational purposes or just simply to add some extra enjoyment into the lives of city dwellers. Yes, the most obvious example of this is public parks, but green space could also refer to street trees, waterways, undeveloped natural areas, golf courses and even your own backyard! Yes, that's right, there is actually such a thing as private green space. All of these are valid discussions for this forum. If it has something to do with nature, chances are you've come to the right place.

This thread should be able to cover several highly relevant topics, including:

1. Winnipeg's Urban Forest.
-Discussions about our substantial population of elm trees.
-Dutch Elm Disease and the severe threat it's posing to Winnipeg's canopy.
-Tree planting, tree removal, & future plans regarding any projects related to these.
-The cities arboreal budget, and discussions regarding the use of that money.
-Thoughts and opinions on the importance of our urban forest relative to other major infrastructure issues the city's facing

2. Riverbank Land
-Updates on new waterfront developments happening, such as the urban renewal occurring on Waterfront Drive & in Point Douglas.
-Usage of the river, including talks about the waterbus, the river walk, parks, trails, private property, and recreational activity along the corridors.
-Riverbank erosion
-Environmental issues regarding our rivers, including talks about our wastewater infrastructure, farmland runoff, and possibly even broader issues regarding the threat to lake Winnipeg.
-The dreaded F word. You all know what it is.
-And last but not least, anything related to the minor waterways in our city that we sometimes forget about, including the seine river, and many of our creeks such as Omands, Truro, Sturgeon, Selkirks and Bunns. In general, simply anything that has to do with our utilizing any type of waterway for recreational purposes. (EDIT: I can't believe I forgot about the La Salle river! Apologies to St. Norbert)

3. Winnipeg's major & minor Public Parks.
-Assiniboine Park, Kildonan Park, The Forks, St. Vital Park, and so on.
-Major new projects happening inside them.
-Creation of brand new parks, or the selling off of public green space for things such as high density developments, which we will run into more often as we try to address revitalizing our inner urban core.
-Discussions about landscape architecture, and what additional things we could possibly do with our park spaces.

Or maybe, you just wanna stop by and post a picture of your favorite piece of Winnipeg's greenery. Either way, I hope this thread catches on. Take it away guys.

Last edited by WolselyMan; Jul 27, 2017 at 2:08 PM.
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  #2  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2017, 8:51 PM
WolselyMan WolselyMan is offline
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"Protesters surround machinery to protect Winnipeg's Parker Lands"http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...ipeg-1.4205450

Quote:
A group of protesters gathered at the Parker Lands in Winnipeg Friday in an effort to halt the removal of trees and destruction of what they call an important environmental wetland area.

The group surrounded a shredding machine that had been at work since Thursday, turning timber into toothpicks.

"We're standing in front of the machines and making sure they're not moving," said protester Jenna Vandal.

"The construction company came and told us we were on private land, and we said we're actually on Native land so we're not moving. He left and got the police to come, and the police told us they're just worried for our safety and left after that."
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Old Posted Jul 23, 2017, 10:09 PM
Jets4Life Jets4Life is offline
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Originally Posted by WolselyMan View Post
"Protesters surround machinery to protect Winnipeg's Parker Lands"http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...ipeg-1.4205450

The Parker Lands development is not only foolish, but is the real reason the BRT was altered from the desired location, to a location that it will fail miserably. Thanks, Sammie!
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  #4  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 1:32 AM
buzzg buzzg is offline
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How is the Parker Lands thing a "fiasco?"

It's wild brush, it's not like it was some protected marsh or anything. Agree the dogleg shouldn't be happening, but that land would have been developed one way or the other.
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Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 2:47 AM
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parker lands is swamp land it should be left alone reason it was never built on
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Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 3:07 AM
WolselyMan WolselyMan is offline
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Originally Posted by buzzg View Post
How is the Parker Lands thing a "fiasco?"

It's wild brush, it's not like it was some protected marsh or anything. Agree the dogleg shouldn't be happening, but that land would have been developed one way or the other.
Quite a lot to unpack here, surprisingly.

1. "It's wild brush, it's not like it was protected or anything".

Well, at the very least it IS a marsh. More specifically, it's a massive natural area consisting of woodlands mixed with a substantial amount of wetlands. It has some of the most densely populated and diverse wildlife within the city limits, and within the past few decades it has quickly established itself as a popular recreational area for nature lovers, something that is NOT the same thing as a giant field of freshly cut grass to play frisbee on and the occasional tree or shrub here and there to provide shade for all those 'jolly picnickers, (which is pretty much what any of the remaining green space left after the development will turn into.) At night time the entire area is filled with croaking frogs and toads (some parts of it aren't anymore as early as a few weeks ago, when the developer ambushed the area with a surprise bulldozing spree.) People literally have to drive slowly at night because of all the deer in the area, and it's the perfect place to see all kinds of critters that you wouldn't be able to see in a typical Winnipeg neighborhood. Nobody who is actually familiar with the area would consider it "wild brush", nothing more than a land reserve for future development. I can't emphasize enough this is NOT your typical barren former farmland that is the usual diet for suburban development that you'd typically see in Winnipeg. It's a nature park. At least that's what it always was for the citizens of Winnipeg, and the fact that it was never an commemorated as an official public park by the city does not change that which was already established collectively.

2."Agree the dogleg shouldn't be happening"

I wholeheartedly agree as well, but quite frankly the environmental effect of the dogleg isn't really that big of a deal. Aside from cutting down a few trees in the way of the glorified bus lane, it pretty much would eventually blend in with the rest of the environment once everything settled down. The real threat that completely pales into comparison is the private development by Gem Equities. Which threatens the whole entirety of the area. Oh sure, they say that they're going leave some of the space undeveloped for green space, but the developer was supposed to have formulated the whole plan for the development and presented it to the city BEFORE he'd start removing trees from the area. I sure can appreciate that the kind of development he has in mind is high density condos, probably being advertised as TOD, but because the plans haven't even been formalized yet in their entirety there's nothing stopping him from suddenly changing it to cookie cutter houses on hideous cul de sacs.

3. "but that land would have been developed one way or the other."

What, you mean there's more people like Sam Katz out there trying to climb their way into positions of influence in our city?

I think I've said everything that's necessary.

Last edited by WolselyMan; Jul 24, 2017 at 3:49 AM.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 4:26 AM
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Roger Strong Roger Strong is offline
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Originally Posted by 1ajs View Post
parker lands is swamp land it should be left alone reason it was never built on
Brown's Creek and it's swamp area was filled in, and that didn't cause any problems when built on.

Well, OK. Our original 1886 city hall sank into it and fell apart after just a couple years. And the next city hall, the gingerbread house one, also settled and had structural problems. But the modern-day parkade; that stayed up!
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  #8  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 5:08 AM
WolselyMan WolselyMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Roger Strong View Post
Brown's Creek and it's swamp area was filled in, and that didn't cause any problems when built on.

Well, OK. Our original 1886 city hall sank into it and fell apart after just a couple years. And the next city hall, the gingerbread house one, also settled and had structural problems. But the modern-day parkade; that stayed up!
You don't mean the hideous Rorie Street parkade, do you? I'd commit arson upon that structure if there wasn't the danger of setting an entire national historic site on fire.

Man, I'm gonna need to find a lawyer after typing that.....
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  #9  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 2:02 PM
WolselyMan WolselyMan is offline
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Incompetence such as this seriously pisses me off.

Arborist blasts Assiniboine Park for uprooting century-old trees http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...oted-1.4163600

Quote:
The destruction of century-old trees in Assiniboine Park has alarmed a Winnipeg arborist, who says the park's stewards are more focused on building attractions than maintaining the natural environment.

"It's a park, why are we removing trees in a park? It seems so counter-intuitive and counter-productive. It's not what's supposed to go on," said Matt Vinet, director of the Prairie chapter of the International Society of Arboriculture.

"I don't think a lot of people realized what was going on."



While the park says it plans to plant hundreds of new trees, in recent years, many decades-old trees have been taken down for developments such as the Qualico Centre, the nature and adventure playground, and the zoo's parking lot.
Quote:
And more — upwards of 150 — are expected to be uprooted to make way for the Canada Diversity Gardens, the signature project in the $200-million redevelopment campaign at the park.

The facility is being touted by the park as a place where visitors will learn about sustainability, conservation and nature.

"That's really kind of the opposite of what's going on there," said Vinet. "They're not exactly sustainable when they're a park removing a large number of irreplaceable trees."

He doesn't believe what is happening in Assiniboine Park would occur in other cities, such as Vancouver's Stanley Park, New York City's Central Park or London's Hyde Park.

"You have to have a really good reason to take a tree out," he said, adding there are also repercussions for the ecosystem to consider.

Last edited by WolselyMan; Jul 24, 2017 at 2:03 PM. Reason: add link
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  #10  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 3:17 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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What is considered a wetland? Land which has water on it? Lets not confuse Parker for say Oak Hammock Marsh or Netley Marsh. I'm all for preserving nature. But this Parker, my gosh. Parker has frogs and plants. I get it.

Everyone should check out where they are living and what used to be there before houses. I'll bet all those people who live in the Parker Beaumont area don't even realize there houses blasted away similar lands when they were built. All of Winnipeg used to be 'tall grass prairie' or woodland or swamp.
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Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 3:23 PM
buzzg buzzg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
What is considered a wetland? Land which has water on it? Lets not confuse Parker for say Oak Hammock Marsh or Netley Marsh. I'm all for preserving nature. But this Parker, my gosh. Parker has frogs and plants. I get it.

Everyone should check out where they are living and what used to be there before houses. I'll bet all those people who live in the Parker Beaumont area don't even realize there houses blasted away similar lands when they were built. All of Winnipeg used to be 'tall grass prairie' or woodland or swamp.
Exactly. I LOL'd when the news first ran this story and they interviewed a guy who was talking about how bad this was, and how the "wetlands" were like one of his neighbours, and residents will have nowhere to go etc.... Dude... you live right beside them, what do you think was there before your house was built?

The Assiniboine park thing, that disheartens me though.
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  #12  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 3:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
What is considered a wetland? Land which has water on it? Lets not confuse Parker for say Oak Hammock Marsh or Netley Marsh. I'm all for preserving nature. But this Parker, my gosh. Parker has frogs and plants. I get it.

Everyone should check out where they are living and what used to be there before houses. I'll bet all those people who live in the Parker Beaumont area don't even realize there houses blasted away similar lands when they were built. All of Winnipeg used to be 'tall grass prairie' or woodland or swamp.
Come on, everyone knows that the ecologically critical wetlands and sacred indigenous lands ended at Parker Avenue

The amount of bullshit being spewed in relation to the Parker site is staggering. It's a piece of scrub land that has now been elevated to the status of the Amazon rainforest. Chalk it up to another bit of rapid transit sabotage from Katz... this all could have been avoided without his meddling.
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Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 3:36 PM
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Amazing how fast unofficial dog parks/gardening plots become "wetlands" when threatened with construction...
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  #14  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 3:38 PM
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Amazing how fast unofficial dog parks/gardening plots become "wetlands" when threatened with construction...
I like how they realized "wetlands" didn't have enough traction on its own so they had to elevate it to indigenous land and get Metis activists involved in this previously undiscovered site of apparently vital historical importance.

Are there any other helpful labels that could be thrown to the wall here in an effort to get something to stick?
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Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 5:19 PM
WolselyMan WolselyMan is offline
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Originally Posted by buzzg View Post
what do you think was there before your house was built?
Is this supposed to be an argument? How does the fact that Beaumont is built on land once similar to Parker a point against preserving the remaining natural area? I guess since we made a 'mistake' the first time, why should we care if we do it a second time. Is this what you're trying to articulate?

And will you all stop putting the term "wetlands" in quotation marks? What, do you really think that it's description was simply fabricated because some hippies wanted to save some dull and obscure species of spider from extinction? All you have to do is visit the area if you want to confirm that it is a ' "wetland" '. During the spring time and after very heavy rainfall, the area's surface can be completely covered with a sheet of water, giving it the temporary appearance of a lake. The area is a 3 fold mix of wetland, woodland, and grassland all overlapping with each other in one way or another. Of course it isn't any Oak Hammock Marsh. It isn't because you don't have to take a 1 hour drive out of the city just to get there. Instead you can just take a walk down your street if you want to experience an authentic piece of manitoba wetland.

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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
The amount of bullshit being spewed in relation to the Parker site is staggering. It's a piece of scrub land that has now been elevated to the status of the Amazon rainforest.
I'll repeat this one last time. This area is NOT THE SAME THING AS BARREN FARMLAND. People seem to be under the impression that the Parker lands are pretty much like the land that you'd see being offered up for new suburban developments, such as Precinct-K. The difference is that Precinct-K is nothing but abandoned farmland, wiped of any biodiversity long ago through excessive raping of it's soil by continuous crop cycles. The Parker lands, on the other hand, have never been developed, even for agriculture, so they have been preserved in their natural state with all it's wildlife intact. And if anything, the isolated nature of it's environment from any other large reserve of wilderness has done nothing but to actually increase the density of it's wildlife, making it an overcrowded island of sorts that forms a major anchor for animal navigation routes throughout the city, I'm guessing. If it really was just "scrub land" the nobody would devote a careers worth of time to preserving them. Maybe, just maybe, people want to preserve this place because they recognize that it's a very unique environment for an area right in the middle of the city to be hosting. Either that or they just seem to think that a dull wasteland of grass is the coolest thing ever - No wait, that's Assiniboine Park that I'm talking about....And basically 98% of all other parks in the western world.
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Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 5:38 PM
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LOL, so much to unpack in there but don't feel like getting into an argument.

It'll be good when the retention pond goes in then so that when it rains and the grass floods due to poor drainage, we won't have as much standing water to breed mosquitoes.

Also, not sure how well your guess about animal travel holds up. It's surrounded by grass, housing, trains, hydro ROWs, storage units, Pembina... it doesn't connect to any other major forests or natural areas in the city. The relatively young age of those trees should also give you some info about the history of that site.
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  #17  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 8:10 PM
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Originally Posted by WolselyMan View Post
Incompetence such as this seriously pisses me off.

Arborist blasts Assiniboine Park for uprooting century-old trees http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...oted-1.4163600
Aren't trees replaceable by definition? And the place where that new conservatory is going isn't really full of 100 year old trees. They're going to have to cut down a few trees, but it's not like they have to clear cut an old growth forest to make way here. It's mostly in a current field.
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Old Posted Jul 25, 2017, 5:33 AM
WolselyMan WolselyMan is offline
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Aren't trees replaceable by definition?
With all due respect, when I think of the word "replaceable", trees wouldn't really even register to me as even in the top 50 items that would match that description, let alone replaceable by definition. I'd hate to sound like a smart ass, but you are aware that it often takes upwards of 60 years for a tree to reach maximum size? Certainly not irreplaceable, but why should I have to wait 60 years for some newly planted trees to grow full size when I already have perfectly healthy fully mature trees already in the ground to enjoy? What I'm trying to say is, planting and growing a tree is a 60 year commitment. Chopping down a tree, on the other hand, is a 60 second commitment. Whenever you cut down a fully grown tree, you are ultimately deciding something permanent about that landscape. Something that won't be able to be reversed for half a century, at the shortest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
And the place where that new conservatory is going isn't really full of 100 year old trees.
I think you need to take a closer look at that CBC article

Quote:
The destruction of century-old trees in Assiniboine Park has alarmed a Winnipeg arborist,.......And more — upwards of 150 — are expected to be uprooted to make way for the Canada Diversity Gardens, the signature project in the $200-million redevelopment campaign at the park.
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
They're going to have to cut down a few trees, but it's not like they have to clear cut an old growth forest to make way here.
Keep in mind that the vast majority of Assiniboine Park (or at least the part that's landscaped) basically consists of open, sprawling fields of freshly mowed grass. The actual part of that land that's canopied with trees is comparatively small, and are more there as supporting scenery for the big green fields and not so much the main focus of the landscape. If they had to cut down the exact same amount of trees in an old growth forest, of course it wouldn't feel like that big of a deal, because it's a drop in the bucket when scaled against the countless trees of a forest. But when you plan on taking 150 trees out of a small site that is at best, heavily peppered by them, then that's the equivalent of chopping down an Ireland's worth of Amazon rainforest in a year.

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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
It's mostly in a current field.
It really wouldn't have taken much for them to try a little harder than that. How about ENTIRELY in a field? There is no shortage of those in the park, so what are they so afraid of swallowing some of it up for? Are they really that worried that sports enthusiasts will be outraged by reducing their endless supply of green space all over the city that's tailored specifically for them? Does Assiniboine Park really need 3 baseball diamonds? Maybe it makes sense that they do, seeing that they're the most well known out of all other parks, but I'd expect a philosophy from those running a greenspace to favor trees, over....grass. That's what they did. They asked themselves what was of more value; trees, or grass - And they picked the grass dammit.

Oh well. Looking forward to those extra 1000 trees that they'll be planting in the future. Maybe I might be able to snatch a photo of the end result, 60 years later on my death bed. Right before they tear them all down once more to replace the conservatory yet again.
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  #19  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2017, 5:57 AM
LilZebra LilZebra is offline
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St. Vital Park

I wish that St. Vital Park had more to do and see there.

I was there due to curiosity in 2015 and never went back.

Aside from the fountain and toilets and very very minimal English garden, there's nothing.

Oh, I guess if you have a dog or play soccer or baseball or want to have a family BBQ.

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Old Posted Jul 25, 2017, 6:06 AM
LilZebra LilZebra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
What is considered a wetland? Land which has water on it? Lets not confuse Parker for say Oak Hammock Marsh or Netley Marsh. I'm all for preserving nature. But this Parker, my gosh. Parker has frogs and plants. I get it.
When I hear the word "wetland" I immediately conjure up visions of wet, swampy land like Oak Hammock.
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