Portage and Main re-opening 2016

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by Ando

Gordon Sinclair, that great brain and forward thinker, hero to riverman and rrskylar, has spoken.

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...451552973.html

Sinclair stirs up controversy and drives traffic to the website, and this is why the WFP keeps him on the payroll. He is not known for his sharp intellect or analytical insight. To this issue, as with all others, he brings no value. I feel sorry for anyone who had to pay money to read his smug ramblings.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Riverman

For those who really think traffic safety was not a consideration for closing the intersection...

"The closing of Portage and Main to pedestrian traffic in 1978 was a major step forward in terms of pedestrian safety and traffic flow in downtown Winnipeg."

https://mennozacharias.com/2017/10/1...trian-traffic/

Of course it improves pedestrian safety, it can't not. Separating uses will always reduce conflict and thereby improve safety. That doesn't mean mobility isn't an equally important goal though, and that with proper infrastructure and road-user behaviour we can't achieve it.

Besides, are drivers so bad that they'll (along with the bus drivers) start mowing down pedestrians if they're forced to share space with them in the one intersection where they currently don't? Surely they can navigate traffic signals and watch for pedestrians when making turns.

[optimusREIM]

#scramblecrossing

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

How dare the city be development and business friendly.

Development and business friendly is one thing, opening a bottleneck intersection to pedestrian traffic at the bequest of a few does the public a disservice. We'll see how businesses that transport goods throughout the city feel when they are forced to go through P & M because there is no viable alternative when their drivers now become stuck in traffic 15 minutes longer.

[Jeff]

I'm actually kinda proud of Bowman through this whole P&M saga. He's getting a lot of flack, but he's holding strong on this and pushing it through. All of this, along with the Tache Promenade, are kinda coming together for Bowman as a Glen Murray-esque play on his part (hello $1mil toilet bridge and Waterfront Dr - No one is complaining about those "vanity" projects anymore).

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Development and business friendly is one thing, opening a bottleneck intersection to pedestrian traffic at the bequest of a few does the public a disservice. We'll see how businesses that transport goods throughout the city feel when they are forced to go through P & M because there is no viable alternative when their drivers now become stuck in traffic 15 minutes longer.

Do you really think traffic will explode because now people will be able to walk in the same direction as traffic? You already can't turn left from Main Street, so the only thing pedestrians would impact would be left turns from Portage onto Main (which could be mitigated with a left-turn cycle) and right turns from Main onto Portage. And there's already a crosswalk at Portage and Fort only 90 metres away, so I don't see this adding 15 minutes to any commute. Didn't the official study add like a minute or something like that?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Riverman

I had a good look at the centre island while waiting at the light on southbound Main. It is not three feet wide. This is far below the code for a waiting island on an intersection of that width. So if the intersection opens, the roadway will have to be narrowed. Yikes.

This wide street is busy, has no island, and somehow it works

https://goo.gl/maps/6sMpGwGCgtD2

[GreyGarden]

Even if we assume that the majority of Winnipeggers do want the intersection to remain closed (I suspect most don’t care), decisions shouldn’t live and die by what the majority wants. The majority of people do not understand urban planning, they shouldn’t be expected to. I don't mean that as a shot towards public intelligence, by all means have an opinion and engage, that’s a good thing. I’m just saying that government shouldn’t put any weight behind it, most people simply have no training in urban planning. It seems obvious but it seems to get lost in this discussion sometimes, I’m not trying to criticize people on this forum, many of you have a better handle on urban planning issues than the general public.

Ultimately, these kinds of decisions should be made based on the expert planning information available. Governments job is to listen to the information given to them by their planners and use that information to make a decision on an issue (I’m not arguing that this always happens…It definitely does not). They shouldn’t be holding expensive referendums (which some vocal people have ridiculously been calling for), on issues that will have such a neutral impact on people’s lives.

Based on my own limited knowledge of urban planning, opening this intersection seems like a no brainer. Will it impact traffic? Probably, most vibrant cities that I’ve visited have terrible traffic, small reason why people enjoy living closer to the core and walking. I’m not saying that this is a reason for opening up the P&M, it isn’t, but it also shouldn’t stand in our way of deciding this issue.

I don’t think anyone seriously believes that opening P&M will somehow transform Winnipeg into New York or Toronto, it won’t, but hopefully it signals that the city is going to start implementing urban friendly ideas that other cities have been applying for years.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Jeff

I'm actually kinda proud of Bowman through this whole P&M saga. He's getting a lot of flack, but he's holding strong on this and pushing it through. All of this, along with the Tache Promenade, are kinda coming together for Bowman as a Glen Murray-esque play on his part (hello $1mil toilet bridge and Waterfront Dr - No one is complaining about those "vanity" projects anymore).

Agreed. A month after P&M gets opened to pedestrians, everyone will have forgotten what all the fuss was about. Good for Bowman for sticking to it.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by esquire

This wide street is busy, has no island, and somehow it works

https://goo.gl/maps/6sMpGwGCgtD2

Nowhere near as wide, nowhere near as busy. The Main Street islnd will not meet code. Why are there no traffic engineers on here?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Nowhere near as wide, nowhere near as busy. The Main Street islnd will not meet code. Why are there no traffic engineers on here?

Fortunately with the barriers gone, they can push the roads out a foot and a half to either side... add that extra sapce to what's already there, and there's your island.

No need for defeatism... it can be done, Riverman!

[Riverman]

It's not that simple. But hey, fat stacks can solve any problem!

[esquire]

So what is preventing the city from widening the street by 18 inches on either side? The barriers with their planters are wider than that on all corners.



Looks like there is plenty of room behind our old buddy Gord to carve out a few inches for a street widening. By the way, remember Gord? Here he is making a promise to keep the barriers up if he got elected. He finished fourth.

[Ando]

Once it opens, we can encourage Gordon Sinclair to walk across several times a day, particularly during rush hour.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by DowntownBooster

The Men's clothing store in Winnipeg Square that you speak of was actually a Harry Rosen. I remember buying a few neckties from there in the early 90s when I worked nearby in the Richardson Building. It was a little more upscale in those days similar to when Portage Place first opened.

Wasn't Harry Rosen as they have only been at Polo Park. I keep thinking Hanford Drewitt before they moved to Broadway. HD was (is) an upscale men's clothing store.

[esquire]

^ I recall the menswear store that was in there, but I can't remember the name. Probably gone since the early 2000s. It was by where Freshii is. I have vague memories of the same older guy in there all the time, probably closed down when he retired.

It was a very small store, like Hanford Drewitt but smaller. Incidentally, HD has been on Broadway for as long as I can remember.

[Ando]

From the Winnipeg Architectural site.

"Operating since 1948, the original owners Hanford and Drewitt established the menswear store to introduce luxury men’s clothing and on-site tailoring to Winnipeg. In 1970, the business commissioned Ron Keenberg of IKOY Architects to design a new structure for the retail store on bustling Broadway. Winner of a 1982 Premier’s Design Award, the modest Hanford Drewitt store was a compact yet elegant addition to the street.


It is clad with dark grey slate emphasizing its simple volume. The sole show window is set flush with the tiles, in keeping with the the building's understated quality."

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

#scramblecrossing

You mean like Portage and Kennedy is today?

[buzzg]

It's lunacy to think this will add 15 minutes onto a commute. Ridiculous. Right now E-W you can't turn left from Portage to Main while traffic is crossing anyway, so having peds cross at the same time is fine. And some of the plans had only 3 crossings to help with this perceived issue.

Originally Posted by esquire

This wide street is busy, has no island, and somehow it works

https://goo.gl/maps/6sMpGwGCgtD2

Portage & Memorial is a better example. Way wider, way busier, WAY more pedestrians, and no islands.

Originally Posted by CoryB

You mean like Portage and Kennedy is today?

Portage and Kennedy isn't though. If it was, the lines on the ground would reflect that and so would the signals.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by buzzg

It's lunacy to think this will add 15 minutes onto a commute. Ridiculous. Right now E-W you can't turn left from Portage to Main while traffic is crossing anyway, so having peds cross at the same time is fine. And some of the plans had only 3 crossings to help with this perceived issue.



Portage & Memorial is a better example. Way wider, way busier, WAY more pedestrians, and no islands.



ls.

Portage and Memorial is not more busy. Not a chance. Can you count the lanes on main ? Now count Memorial. See a difference ? There is a reason Memorial goes down to 2 lanes each way and same as north of portage. Main however doesnt and main is a major roadway that goes from the south perimeter to the north perimeter.

I'm not saying keep it closed. But there isn't an intersection in this city you can compare it to.

As for these comments Bowman is keeping his promise. How so? He ain't doing anything till 2019. All he is doing is spending 3.5 million on more studies to study the studies done to. Are sure those studies of the studies are studied more.

As far as him being elected because he wanted to open PNM. Lmfao. As if. He was elected more on the fuck up called the Police HQ and his promise to get to the bottom of that. Btw how is he doing on that front ?

Bowman opens he yappy little mouth this past month because of the Globe and Mail artical. He has no intentions of opening it.