So how goes the hockey team?

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

Where would they find space for a new arena?

If the discussion goes far enough to include talks of a new arena, then yeah, I think you're looking at this prospective team leaving the city of Hamilton for 'greener' pastures. It's hard to imagine a different scenario playing out. It's hard to imagine, frankly, a team everrrrrrrr coming to Hamilton, so...

BTW, if this future imaginary team sets up shop outside Hamilton proper and likely doesn't even carry the Hamilton name (i.e. the Ontario somethings), will anyone actually give a sh*t? I'm not sure I'd even bother.

[mattgrande]

You just made me realise something... I'd rather cheer for the Kitchener ____s, or the Mississauga ____s than the Ontario _____s. I don't know why that is...

[KDP]

If it leaves Copps, why would it need to leave Hamilton? There's lots of space down by the water. Couldn't they build one where the large shed is beside Sarcoa/somewhere further along the docks? There is a ton of land in North Hamilton instead of moving the team (if there would be one) to a field in Burlington.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by KDP

If it leaves Copps, why would it need to leave Hamilton? There's lots of space down by the water. Couldn't they build one where the large shed is beside Sarcoa/somewhere further along the docks? There is a ton of land in North Hamilton instead of moving the team (if there would be one) to a field in Burlington.

If we ever got a team, which is highly unlikely because we don't fit the image the NHL wants, it would be their worst nightmare if we put an arena in an industrial area. They would nix that idea in about a second.

[matt602]

If it wasn't at Copps and stayed in Hamilton, it would HAVE to be downtown I think. It needs to have the highway access that is available downtown with the available parking and nearby amenities (food, pubs, transit, etc) that downtown has as well. Stadiums are a bit different in this regard but I'd say arena construction leans more toward developed, urban centres.

[ihateittoo]

yes but we rarely conform to the norm.

[ScreamingViking]

As much as I disbelieve this will happen in my lifetime, if it did, I do think there's plenty of potential to renovate Copps to make it work.

That land in Burlington is far more valuable for potential industrial/commercial development - it's one of the few remaining large developable lots in that city.

And I agree that downtown makes more sense than an industrial or suburban site for something that will be used a minimum 41 nights of the year for hockey and can host a range of other indoor events.

[Paul29]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

As much as I disbelieve this will happen in my lifetime, if it did, I do think there's plenty of potential to renovate Copps to make it work.

Jim Balsillie had an entire presentation on how he would renovate Copps when he bought his team and moved them to Hamilton.
He put his cart before the horse but it may benefit someone else in the future.

[CaptainKirk]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

...I do think there's plenty of potential to renovate Copps to make it work.

I believe it was designed that way, so that the roof can be easily lifted and tiers/private suite could be added. That was Balsillie's plan.

I've read Copps described as "economically" old for the current economics of the NHL, and not physically old.

It just needs modern private suites, and upgraded concessions. The seats, ice making equipment, electrical etc are all upgraded and up to modern standards.

Basically it could house an NHL team right away if need be, and up graded later at about half the cost of building a new one.

Here are some renderings from the proposed Balisllie reno/upgrade

[Berklon]

I'm just going to assume this will not happen... that either the story is false, or the attempt will fail.

We've been down this road far too many times only to be left disappointed. Unless there's actually confirmation from the NHL that this is happening, I hope the media just lets this story die.

[SteelTown]

Personally I have no issues with the Aldershot site, it's a good central location. But obviously my first choice would be to renovate Copps. If only Aldershot was part of Hamilton and not Burlington.

Nowadays they just don't build arenas for NHL teams, they build massive entertainment districts. Look at Pittsburgh and just yesterday Detroit approved a new district for the Detroit Red Wings.

[Berklon]

If they build a new arena outside of the downtown vicinity, it'll be a clear indicator to me that any turn-around downtown will be minimal at best. This other arena will compete with Copps for events and take a lot away from it. They also lose the potential opportunity of hosting 41 home NHL games.

We already missed the boat with the stadium, and with an arena elsewhere - not only will there be no increase reasons for people to come downtown, we'll be taking some of those reasons away.

Renovating Copps would definitely be the best scenario for Hamilton.

This is all a moot point anyway, as I still don't see an NHL team coming anytime soon.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Yeah, it's highly unlikely to happen for various reasons already discussion ad nauseam on this forum.

But if an expansion team were granted to someone in Southern Ontario (notice I didn't say Hamilton), this team would carry neither the name 'Hamilton' nor play anywhere within the old city of Hamilton. That's not what should happen but what is the most likely scenario. It would be a regional team and the only way to achieve that physically and emotionally would be to place it in Aldershot/ Burlington.

And for the record, there are plenty of NHL arenas in suburban/ greenfield areas, so precedent's been set.

[BCTed]

It is obviously quite a long shot that Hamilton (or Hamilton area, I guess) ever gets an NHL team, but I do find it curious that so many of you are speculating on Aldershot without any kind of suggestion having ever been made by anyone outside of this forum (as far as I know) that a hockey team would go there.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

And for the record, there are plenty of NHL arenas in suburban/ greenfield areas, so precedent's been set.

Yes, and time and time again it's been admitted to being a mistake.

We're seeing more and more new arenas being built in or near the downtown area now.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by BCTed

It is obviously quite a long shot that Hamilton (or Hamilton area, I guess) ever gets an NHL team, but I do find it curious that so many of you are speculating on Aldershot without any kind of suggestion having ever been made by anyone outside of this forum (as far as I know) that a hockey team would go there.

During the Ticats stadium location debate, Paletta came forward and offered a large parcel of land adjacent to Aldershot GO Station for the stadium's location. Paletta has been quite low key about development plans for that parcel of land since then. While Burlington council was clearly disinterested in a football stadium, the prospect of a NHL franchise would certainly be received quite differently.

It is not unrealistic that Paletta may still have aspirations for a sporting venue there, and a NHL arena would certainly work there. It is not unlike the site of Ottawa's NHL arena in Kanata. It is accessible by major highways and is next to Aldershot GO station. It is as good a potential location for a NHL arena as any, arguably preferable to the location being considered in Markham.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Yes, and time and time again it's been admitted to being a mistake.

We're seeing more and more new arenas being built in or near the downtown area now.

I'm not arguing for a suburban arena, by the way - that would not be my personal preference. I'm just making the point that this would be a regional team drawing as many fans from Halton, KW-Cambridge-Guelph and Niagara as from Hamilton itself. This would not be a repeat of the Ottawa situation unless, of course, there were millions of people living directly north, south and west of Kanata.

I can't imagine the NHL not wanting an expansion team in Southern Ontario but I don't think they want anything to do with Hamilton in name or in any other way. Copps is a non-starter, anyway.

[CaptainKirk]

Nothing would surprise me when it comes to the NHL in Hamilton. It is a very lucrative market. Even the NHL admitted in court, a Hamilton team (southern Ontario), would be a top 5 revenue generator.

Also, both Rogers and Bell are on record saying that their purchase of MLSE is all about broadcasting content.

If they can make more money, with more content (another team) then I can see it happening.

Furthermore, Buffalo has never been stronger with a deep pocketed owner, and a season ticket holder base that is 85% American, with a waiting list of thousands, and a very high STH renewal rate that would take someone years to get their tix. Buffalo is not dependent on Canadian fans.

If any Hamilton is as lucrative as the NHL claims, then there is plenty of indemnification to be realized by both Buffalo and Toronto

Bottom line? Money talks. if money can be made by Buffalo and Toronto, it'll happen, whether it's in Hamilton or somewhere else in S.O.

I'd also classify Copps as a potential plus, in that any reno, would probably be cheaper than building a new arena. By accounts that I've read, it is not physically old, but described as economically old, meaning it needs private suites and concessions spruced up to current NHL standards. Apparently seats, ice making , electrical and such are up to par, and have not been neglected.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

During the Ticats stadium location debate, Paletta came forward and offered a large parcel of land adjacent to Aldershot GO Station for the stadium's location. Paletta has been quite low key about development plans for that parcel of land since then. While Burlington council was clearly disinterested in a football stadium, the prospect of a NHL franchise would certainly be received quite differently.

It is not unrealistic that Paletta may still have aspirations for a sporting venue there, and a NHL arena would certainly work there. It is not unlike the site of Ottawa's NHL arena in Kanata. It is accessible by major highways and is next to Aldershot GO station. It is as good a potential location for a NHL arena as any, arguably preferable to the location being considered in Markham.

I had forgotten about the Paletta thing. Still an enormous stretch to think that a "Hamilton" team would go there.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by CaptainKirk

I believe it was designed that way, so that the roof can be easily lifted and tiers/private suite could be added. That was Balsillie's plan.

I've read Copps described as "economically" old for the current economics of the NHL, and not physically old.

It just needs modern private suites, and upgraded concessions. The seats, ice making equipment, electrical etc are all upgraded and up to modern standards.

Basically it could house an NHL team right away if need be, and up graded later at about half the cost of building a new one.

Here are some renderings from the proposed Balisllie reno/upgrade

Thanks for the images - I remember a few of them. The render of the main entrance looked stunning.

I think you're right about its condition and upgrade potential. But I could also see an owner with deep pockets trying to build brand new and control related adjacent development, like Steeltown mentioned (not that there's no room for that downtown, but there would be different challenges compared to a suburban highway site)