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  #1  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2011, 2:56 PM
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Melbourne's rail network projected to have 1.8 million trips per weekday in 2022

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/ci...618-1g97z.html

Quote:
City bound for commuter hell
Deborah Gough
June 19, 2011


Illustration: Matt Golding

WITHIN a decade, Melbourne's already bursting train services will have to accommodate an extra 1 million passenger trips a day.

The forecast, contained in Transport Department documents obtained by The Sunday Age under freedom of information, reveals that average weekday travel on trains will rise from about 800,000 trips to 1.8 million by 2021-22.

This will put unprecedented pressure on the city's beleaguered rail network, which is already costing Melbourne's central business district $80 million a year in lost productivity, according to economic modelling and research by Monash University.
Excluding bus and tram, if you take the projected rail growth in isolation that would probably move total motorised trips by PT to circa 25% - more with doubling of bus patronage and 1/3 more tram trips (projections from rest of the article)
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Old Posted Jun 18, 2011, 4:02 PM
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That seems a little off considering Melbourne's rail network only carries about 400,000 people a day today.

To be honest, given the size of Melbourne and the rail network, the system should already be carrying that amount. And given all the tracks the system has and the length of it, accommodating that growth should not be a problem.
I do not understand how North American and Australian systems can't cope with ridership on rail networks, when our European and Asian counterparts carry vastly more people a day on rail networks with less tackage, etc.
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Old Posted Jun 18, 2011, 11:27 PM
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did you not read the article? 800k weekday trips currently. Yes Metrotrains state 400k people - apples & oranges.

Melbourne's system currently has 3 types of signalling with varying max throughputs on different sections of the respective lines - thus lowering overall throughput, there's been hot air blown from the bowels of the differing state governments about rationalising that for ages, plus the plethora of level crossings lowers frequency capacity (as if you maxed it out crossing barriers would be down permanently).

The Age has been running a campaign on improving the rail network for years now, and as the current state government promised a proper PT planning authority in the last state election and have yet to set it up, they're still going after them on non-action.

Still though, double the patronage is scary if the projection is correct - I'm now living on one of the worst congested lines and would get direct relief with the new metro tunnel proposed by the former government... but who knows what's going on.
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Old Posted Jun 19, 2011, 2:25 AM
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In the meantime, as a purely temporary measure (relief, mostly), some trains could be jury-rigged with a seating arragement similiar to Sao Paulo's CPTM or Rio de Janeiro's SuperVia.

CPTM seating arrangement.

http://www.mundodastribos.com/wp-con...os-Trens-2.jpg

SuperVia seating arrangement:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/185/4...1ada2567cf.jpg
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Old Posted Jun 19, 2011, 2:37 AM
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All I am saying is that until trains are running every 2 minutes on all lines and they are still packed, the system is not at capacity.

If signals and level crossings have to be fixed, then do it.

If they have to stop running every single rail line through one CBD loop, then start building more tunnels in the city

We go through the same thing in Toronto. The rails are congested they say. Well in Europe and Asia they don't need three or four tracks to operate a commuter train every 10 minutes.

The English speaking world is so behind it is not funny.

I would also question those numbers. Why would ridership spike like that? And where is that 800,000 figure from, when the official website for the rail operator says only 400,000 riders a day?

The Australian and North American rail systems should go tell their excuses to the RER in Paris, where one rail line alone carries over one million people, and they manage to operate trains every two minutes in both directions on two tracks.
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Old Posted Jun 19, 2011, 5:03 AM
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It's good that usage is rising. There was a massive decline in public transit usage in Melbourne from 1950-1990:

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  #7  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2011, 5:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manrush View Post
In the meantime, as a purely temporary measure (relief, mostly), some trains could be jury-rigged with a seating arragement similiar to Sao Paulo's CPTM or Rio de Janeiro's SuperVia.

CPTM seating arrangement.

http://www.mundodastribos.com/wp-con...os-Trens-2.jpg

SuperVia seating arrangement:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/185/4...1ada2567cf.jpg
spot on - the problem with the trains currently is they're configured for longer journeys - the thinking hasnt progressed since the 50s (see above post) where there was no real competition and the lines have got longer since then - so people commuting an hour out would naturally want a seat.

I actually think just bench seats down the side for a certain portion of the fleet which runs on lines like Sandringham, Upfield and Alamein would be fine (~30minute journeys from origin to end of the line).

Sandringham can be technically isolated from the network now and have frequencies increased dramatically and goes through rather high density burbs along the bayside which a higher capacity train would work well with. The crunch is the end of the line only has 1 platform at Sandringham, so need another to be able to push more trains through.
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Old Posted Jun 19, 2011, 12:56 PM
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One must remember that these projections may not happen as Melbourne is on the same planning fad that North American cities are in right now, with trying to decentralize everything to the suburbs.

Melbourne's CBD already contains a very very small number of metropolitan jobs, and if they erode that even more with stupid planning schemes, then the public transit ridership growth will not happen.
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Old Posted Jun 19, 2011, 1:15 PM
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*facepalm*
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Old Posted Jun 19, 2011, 1:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Will View Post
It's good that usage is rising. There was a massive decline in public transit usage in Melbourne from 1950-1990:

Melbourne arrested the decline in transit usage due to a massive turnaround in the employment numbers of the CBD.

If you read Paul Mee's book on transport in suburbia, he goes into how the transit ridership growth in Melbourne only rebounded when the CBD grew jobs around the turn of the century.
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  #11  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2011, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
Melbourne's CBD already contains a very very small number of metropolitan jobs...
How many jobs are in Melbourne's CBD? What percentage of the metro total do they represent?
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  #12  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2011, 9:02 PM
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Snapshot: http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/Abou...eSnapshot.aspx

City User estimates: http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/Abou...009_update.pdf
Page 10 has a breakdown on visitor type.

55% of non-work/non-study trips to the City of Melbourne are by public transport - they don't estimate it in the doc for workers, but it'll be higher than that.
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  #13  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2011, 10:09 PM
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I thought I'd read where the Liberals had pledged to continue to develop the 'metro' ?
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  #14  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2011, 4:07 AM
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they have pledged to keep building the Regional Rail Link which will remove inter-city trains from the metro network which will in turn improve 3 metro lines... the big biccie item which will further improve the network is the Metro 1 tunnel - creating a whole new double track path into/out of the city and shifting two lines (Sydenham in West, Cranbourne in East) out of the city loop and they form a cross-town service/line.

Anyhow:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mor...-1226085211300

Quote:
Originally Posted by HUN
RAIL patronage is booming, with an extra 53 trainloads of commuters piling on to the system every day compared with a year ago.

Commuter numbers have surged 8.2 per cent in the past year.

Department of Transport figures have revealed the biggest growth recorded in three years.

In the year to March, 232.5 million trips were made on Melbourne's trains, compared with 219.3 million the previous year.

Department chief Jim Betts said a combination of factors was responsible, including petrol prices and jobs growth in the CBD.
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Old Posted Sep 16, 2011, 3:53 PM
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http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/ju...916-1ke3s.html

Quote:
Just the ticket for weekend commute
Clay Lucas
September 17, 2011



STANDING on a train in Melbourne used to be something you did only on a weekday.

As the city grows though, it seems Melbourne's trains are now often crowded on weekends, too.

But despite passengers showing up for trains in ever greater numbers, there have been only minor changes to weekend timetables in the last decade. And the City Loop's Flagstaff station still shuts down for the entire weekend.

On Saturdays, trip numbers are up 56 per cent since 2004, with an average 342,000 train trips now made.

On Sundays the growth is even more striking, with 92 per cent more than in 2004. Back then, just 147,000 Melburnians took a Sunday train trip. Today, 282,000 do.

Weekend growth has far outpaced weekdays, where train trips have grown by 41 per cent from 2004, to 736,000.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/ju...#ixzz1Y8CpnjH9
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  #16  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2012, 9:39 PM
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Upcoming timetable change in April will see the opening of the Epping line extension to South Morang and the opening of two new stations way out in the 'burbs on the Pakenham and Cranbourne lines - as well as making 3 trunk lines (before they split into the outer suburban branches) move to 10 minute Saturday/Sunday services.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mor...-1226291124349

Quote:
NEW METRO TIMETABLE

AN extra 353 services a week, with 283 of those on weekends

FEWER special services for events such as AFL, additional weekend services provide extra capacity


SOUTH MORANG (EPPING) LINE

EVERY eight minutes during morning and afternoon peak

NEW station at South Morang


HURSTBRIDGE LINE

EVERY ten minutes between Clifton Hill and Jolimont from 7am to 7pm on Saturdays

WEEKEND and daytime services (between peaks) to stop all stations, providing additional services to stations between Clifton Hill and Jolimont


PAKENHAM/CRANBOURNE LINES

EVERY ten minutes from Dandenong to Flinders St between 10am and 7pm on weekends

NEW stations at Cardinia Rd and Lynbrook


FRANKSTON LINE

EVERY ten minutes from 10am to 7pm on weekends


BELGRAVE-LILYDALE LINES

EVERY ten minutes from Ringwood to Flinders St between 10am and 7pm on weekends


CRAIGIEBURN, WERRIBEE, SYDENHAM AND UPFIELD LINES

DIRECTION through City Loop on weekends changes, with all services running out of city via Southern Cross
bizarre the frequency is going to be higher on weekends on those three trunk routes where the off-peak weekday frequency will remain at 15 minutes.

I suppose they'll change that in the November timetable update...
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Old Posted Mar 8, 2012, 2:43 PM
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Disregard the article - it's from a paper which caters for people who are more interested in social pages rather than anything else, but their diagram's interesting.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mor...-1226294147958



Doncaster is a wealthier suburban area which has been stamping its feet for a rail line to the city for years but everyone keeps saying f**k off.

But I do like the Option 3 above - start of an orbital rail in the heart of the middle ring suburbs where redevelopment is far more likely to occur rather than other further outer ring suburban routes.
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Old Posted Apr 7, 2012, 10:23 PM
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Well on April Fool's day, the long-promised restructuring of Victorian Government departments was completed and the creation of Public Transport Victoria, PTV, came into force.

One of the most visible changes is the removal of the metlink brand which was rolled out to give trains, trams and buses similar easy-to-identify signage (whereas buses used to be in the individual bus company's branding and what not on bus stops). The same easy-to-identify signage and what not stays, just the name PTV replacing metlink.

Frequently compared to the likes of TransitBC, TTC and the Swiss agencies before it came into force, all planning, operations and marketing are in the same agency with all the old public servants who used to work in the various departments which used to be fragment now all report directly up to this new agency.

Since April 1 there's been various interviews with the new CEO of PTV, chief amongst it:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/ne...401-1w6mi.html

on buses:

Quote:
Mr Dobbs predicted those promised improvements would arrive ''fairly early'', beginning with better information about travel times and followed by better-connected bus services, which he said needed to connect with train timetables.

''They are unloved; we've got a massive amount of potential to realise on buses, a massive amount of capacity,'' he said.

''Very few people transfer from buses to trains or buses to trams and I think that's largely because they don't trust that interface and its not very well planned.''
on trains:

Quote:
Despite his preference for efficiency rather than expenditure, Mr Dobbs said the government had to build before the end of the decade the Melbourne Metro tunnel - the proposed nine-kilometre rail tunnel from South Yarra to South Kensington - or risk a failure to cope with passenger growth.

''It introduces an extra pipeline through the middle of the city,'' Mr Dobbs said

''The system at the moment is very busy. We've got the ability to get a few more services through the middle of the city in the rush hour but not many, certainly not enough to take a new railway line, wherever it was.''

Other hoped-for train lines, to Tullamarine, Doncaster and Rowville, were rated lower-order priorities.
and with the launch of the new main PT info site www.ptv.vic.gov.au and http://corp.ptv.vic.gov.au they also updated the projects area with the latest images.

This is the metro tunnel proposed by the previous state government. Initially it was going to be a 2 phase project but the current government has killed off that plan, shortened it and make it a 1 phase project, which I somewhat agree with.

Map:

http://corp.ptv.vic.gov.au/assets/PT...-alignment.pdf

and they havent released any sort of detailed station renderings until now.

CBD North - connecting to Melbourne Central Station



Domain Interchange - St. Kilda Road



Parkville





new Arden: literally on the edge of current North Melbourne - all the other above stations make really good use of integrating with Trams but this curiously wont (be one or two blocks away from the current West Maribyrnong tram)



Other recent announcements: On April 22 three trunk rail lines will move to a 10 minute frequency on Saturdays and Sundays between 10am and 7pm - curiously - they wont be that frequent during the weekday. It's because of the lower fares on Weekends (brainchild of previous government to boost weekend patronage) and the fact that on weekends loads are far more spread out rather than just at peaks due to sporting events and the like. Dandenong (Pakenham/Cranbourne Lines), Ringwood (Belgrave/Lilydale lines) and the Frankston line will see these frequency improvements.

Also the South Morang (Epping Line rename and extension) as well as Lynbrook on the Cranbourne line and Cardinia Road on the Pakenham Line will open and are on the new timetable - all to cater for outer suburban growth.

new map with three stations on it:

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  #19  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2012, 11:30 PM
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I see there's a difference in how the stations are manned, but is there any difference in train service between "host" and "premium" stations?
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Old Posted Apr 8, 2012, 12:37 AM
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Generally no, except in peaks.

Morning and afternoon peaks - many of the lines have express services wedged in between stopper services.

on the Dandenong corridor Caulfield, Oakleigh, Clayton, Springvale and Dandenong are generally the stops which are express (trains always stop here)... however the express patterns are not consistent... i.e one train starts at Flinders street, goes around the loop stopping all to South Yarra, then express to Caulfield, express to Oakleigh, then stops all. The next train might just express in South Yarra-Caulfield (quadruple track in this section where the Frankston and Dandenong corridors are combined) then stop all, then a stopping all, then another express on a different stopping pattern etc etc.
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